Kogan Agora next big (small) netbook?

[Bucky Ball]

Hi all,

Just wanted to let you know about a netbook I discovered tonight that is about to be released in Australia, the Kogan Agora. It was put together with the aim of breaking the AU$500 mark and was designed by the prospective users on the company blog site! People posted what they would like in a netbook and Kogan made it. Looks like the goods on paper and I'm keen to get my hands on one. The pre-release (seemingly) independent test-drive reviews rave. Here's what the company has to say:

http://www.kogan.com.au/blog/2009/mar/17/australias-cheapest-netbook/

The Agora Pro sells for AU$539 with Intel N270, 2Gb, 160Gb, 6 cell battery, 92% keyboard size and a 10" screen, one year extendable warranty. Apparently they will be selling some in their ebay shop post-release according to comments from the company, but postage could be the killer there.

In a nutshell, pretty much the same specs as a beefed up MSI Wind minus $100+. One reason for the low price? Company policy professes to cut out the middle man (well, why aren't they aiming for the $400 mark then?) and pre-installed gOS (apparently based on Ubuntu), although Kogan claims the Agora will run Windows, Ubuntu etc., and why not? It has the specs. They just don't install it for you. I personally think computers should ship from the manufacturer with no OS by law so this is as close as I'm going to get! Everything is sold online which also cuts costs further.

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Review/139701,first-look-kogan-agora-netbook-a-super-cheap-wind-lookalike.aspx

The proof is in the pudding, of course, so let's see who throws their hat in the air when these little sweeties hit the streets on April 10. Check it out:

http://www.kogan.com.au/shop/category/netbooks/

* I am not employed by or involved in any other way with Kogan. Just in the market for a neat netbook that is preferably not pre-installed with Windows (have no interest in paying anything to Microsoft for something I am not going to use, but that is another story!), and frankly, sick of seeing the same things after a couple of weeks of trawling ebay and online stores and computer shop websites. I was actually pretty keen on one of these but can't seem to get one into Australia:

http://www.cherrypal.com/

Cherrypal have had a 'nettop' out for awhile, so at least they have some track record with teensy computers, unlike Kogan, who do have a track record in many other types of electrical goods. Their ebay rating is good after four years so can't be all bad.


* All information regarding Kogan is taken from websites, media releases and my general net trawling, please do not take any of this information as anything more than heresay. If what's been written about this machine becomes reality though when the general public get their hands on them (will it appear on April 10? ... fingers crossed here), we could have another real contender on the netbook market. (A David amongst the Goliaths?)

* Why is it you can only seem to get black or white in most shops when the netbook is made in all the colours of the rainbow?

If I end up getting the Kogan Agora I will post again and let you know the verdict. Happy computing!

[klange]

$499 AUS = $343 US
... I'm not seeing any savings here when I can get a Dell Mini for US$299 or less.

[Bucky Ball]

$499 AUS = $343 US
... I'm not seeing any savings here when I can get a Dell Mini for US$299 or less.

You might like to have a look here:

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?c=au&cs=audhs1&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn (http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?c=au&cs=audhs1&l=en&s=dhs&%7Eck=mn)

The bottom of the range Dell Mini 9 starts at AU$599 with 16Gb SSD, 1Gb and a 9" screen. You might like to check the Agora specs again (160Gb HD, 2Gb, 10", open-source OS). The Dell also comes pre-installed with Windows, which means I pay for something I don't want. You might also try pricing two computers with comparable specs. For instance, this machine is virtually identical minus 1Gb of RAM for $429 ... US. That's about AU$625.

http://www.msimobile.com/level3_productpage.aspx?cid=7&id=45

The 8.9 inch Agora with virtually the same specs is AU$499. That's about $125 cheaper by my calculations. Alongside what's available here, the Agora's a bargain.

[Arcadeoddie]

I'm also very interested in this Netbook. I would definitely pick this up once i find a little more about it and reports are good.

can you let us know Buck Ball how you go?

I was hoping the network cards are Atheros so I can play with Backtrack.

[Bucky Ball]

No probs Arcadeoddie. I sent them a long email not more than ten minutes ago so will let you know what they have to say.

Cheers

[Orlsend]

Ouch that aint cheap at all... Specially when asus distributes the eee 900HA globally for 290$ USD. Thats even compared to the cheaper agora which is 353.080 USD. Plus in my Opinion I think already a 10 inch screen its not much of a netbook anymore.

The only cool thning about its that it comes with a Linux distro.

[Bucky Ball]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LATEST-ASUS-EEE-PC-900HA-BLACK-LAPTOP-NOTEBOOK-160GB-XP_W0QQitemZ290302972547QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_comp _laptop?hash=item290302972547&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1318 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LATEST-ASUS-EEE-PC-900HA-BLACK-LAPTOP-NOTEBOOK-160GB-XP_W0QQitemZ290302972547QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_comp _laptop?hash=item290302972547&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)

1Gb of RAM and 0.3 mgp camera rather than 1.3, and 8.9" screen, although I know what you are saying about 10" getting to the limit of netbook range. The laptop you suggest is probably a bit more expensive than the Agora here, although I'm happy to stand corrected. :)

[3rdalbum]

Dudes, as someone who used to work in electrical retail: This sounds too good to be true. I don't doubt that the machine does exist; I mean, Kogan has put products to market before now. But the price and the specs of the machine makes me believe that this unit is made with very, very low quality parts and almost no engineering skill at all. In other words, you're gonna need that 12 month warranty. You're gonna need it a couple of times.

You can spend more than what Kogan charges for an LCD TV, and get **** that will break down at the drop of a hat or have a high liklihood of being DOA (Dead On Arrival). I don't trust this Kogan gear - it is simply too cheap to be any good. That's my professional opinion, as someone who has processed returns for an electrical retailer.

A couple of years ago, Conia burst onto the scene proclaiming the same sorts of things as Kogan - "Samsung panels! Top-quality products! Cheaper than the brand names!". One particular model of Conia set-top-box inevitably broke after a couple of months, if it wasn't DOA. One model of DVD recorder inevitably died after 24 or 48 hours. I swapped over a Conia TV three times for a customer because the "Samsung panels" kept stuffing up.

Conia filed for bankrupcy last year, leaving their customers in the lurch. Not that Conia was very good at following their own warranty procedures even when they were still in business. I wouldn't be surprised if the same factory that used to stamp the Conia name on its products, is now stamping the Kogan name. KOGAN IS NOT WORTH IT.

Also, I can remind Australians that I bought my Acer Aspire One with Linux for $479 from Officeworks, and that Good Guys had the same unit for the same price.

And can I remind everybody that there is virtually no profit margin for retailers in netbooks, so it's not like the unit is cheap because of "no retailer markup".

[Bucky Ball]

Just the kind of discussion I was trying to get happening! Although, based on supposition. You have no idea what parts they use and the Acer Aspire One Linux version comes with 8 - 16 SSD I believe and one gig of RAM. (As I mentioned before, please compare a machine with the same specs - see review below where it is compared to the MSI Wind of which the Agora is a virtual Australian made replica.) Also, the quality of the innards of the Kogan Agora seem to be exactly the same brands and specs as any comparable netbook on the market right now and one review claims them to be at least as robust.

Kogan make tons of other stuff which they have been selling on ebay since June, 2005 where they have a 99.5% rating so they must be doing something right. I certainly appreciate what you're saying about some cut price manufacturers, but unfortunately it is not based on too many facts in this case.

In the world of audio equipment there is a company called Behringer who make cheap copies of mics, eq units, fx units and a million other things. They have been around for years, are reliable and their stuff is great for the price. So guess there are two sides.

As I mentioned in my first post, there is not much to know about these machines until they hit the streets, I am not making anything up to say they are good or bad. I can only go on the few reviews and this one claims they are 'tough enough to survive a beating from a large polar bear', although they only had the thing five minutes and looks can be deceiving:

http://www.zdnet.com.au/reviews/hardware/laptops/soa/Preview-Kogan-Agora-Netbook/0,2000065761,339295458,00.htm?feed=rss (http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Review/139701,first-look-kogan-agora-netbook-a-super-cheap-wind-lookalike.aspx)

Also:

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Review/139701,first-look-kogan-agora-netbook-a-super-cheap-wind-lookalike.aspx

I suggest doing a little more research and you will find the answers to your questions (or assumptions). You will find Kogan are the retailer and sell online, not through retailers (probably one of the reasons for a more realistic price tag) and that, as is the case with the Agora, it looks like they have been genuinely trying to cut prices on quality goods for some time. Makes sense as we all pay through the nose for most technology (how much do you reckon a netbook costs to make?). Cutting out the middle man appears to be Kogan company policy, visit their website.

If there is anyone out there who can relate any actual experience with any Kogan products, please chime in. Love to hear about it.
:)

3rdalbum, I have been able to dig up no dirt on this company and would be all ears if you can, but you may prefer to imagine they must be evil and inferior because of their more realistic pricing than dig with me. About the only negative I have been able to find about their products is their exterior designs are, well, no frills ... as you would imagine for the price. :)

[miracleworker]

I ordered the Pro model last week. My main reason for choosing the Agora (over MSI, Dell or HP netbooks) was so as not to pay for a copy of Windows that I won't ever use.
I'll check back in early-mid April, when the thing is delivered, and let you know how it looks. And yes, we'll see if I'm a sucker - I'll be paying close attention to build quality :)
Josh

[Bucky Ball]

Onya Josh. Keen to hear what you have to say about it. I am about ready to order one myself. The build quality is about all I'm waiting on and if you check the links earlier in this thread, so far so good.

[Bucky Ball]

After much thought, I realise I don't absolutely need this machine right now, although it would be convenient, and after a little more research into the ARM processors I have been hearing about, have decided I can probably wait til end of year, or buy a cheaper model. Perhaps the ultra-green netbook I've been hoping to find:

http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/content/view/full/34641

... and open source to boot, what could be sweeter? A ten year warranty, charge lasts a week and ... an affordable price! It has been mentioned it may be a couple of years before these machines reach an equivalent price point to what's about now, but ... it is technology and the economy we're talking about and all things considered, two years is a long way away. And by then, things could be very different in both realms.

Still very keen to know everything about the Kogan Agora ... when you eventually receive it, that is! Guess they forgot to look at the calendar when planning the dispatch date ... Good Friday!

[miracleworker]

Well, it arrived! Actually it arrived last week (15th) but I was on holidays, so the delay wasn't all Kogan's fault :-)
So far, so good... the pre-installed gOS works as advertised, and I'm writing this post while sitting in my back garden, so the wireless access is fine. The screen is easy to read, although I haven't tried it in bright sunlight.
On my kitchen scale, it weighs in (with battery) at 1.368kg.
The keyboard is a little poky, which I suppose is to be expected in a 10". The comma, period and slash keys are all reduced, which is a bit of a pain - although they could only be practically enlarged by moving the arrow keys. The touchpad tap is very sensitive, so I disabled it, preferring to use the buttons which have a good action to them.
The stylish "wave" case top design seen in some of the promotional shots isn't there - although I didn't expect it to be - instead there's a more conventional interlocked squares design.
The screen folds back to about 120 degrees; at maximum bend the centre of gravity is still under the base so it doesn't overbalance. It doesn't run hot, so it's fine to use as a true "laptop".
Next I plan to run a battery test... if anyone has any specific questions I'll be happy to try and answer them.
Cheers
Josh

[3rdalbum]

see review below where it is compared to the MSI Wind of which the Agora is a virtual Australian made replica.

Made in China; very few electronics devices are made in Australia and none of Kogan's are.


Kogan make tons of other stuff which they have been selling on ebay since June, 2005 where they have a 99.5% rating so they must be doing something right.

On eBay, you leave feedback when you receive the item. If the product breaks after a week, you don't get a chance to change your feedback.

As for product reviews, the reviewers don't have the products for very long. I read rave reviews on a Conia DVD recorder that was stocked in a shop I used to work at... but one came back just a day after sale (dead) and was swapped with another one that died two days later. The last one made it through a month of use before the disc reader died.

I generally don't trust any electronics that are from a cheap unknown brand, because they die very quickly.


I suggest doing a little more research and you will find the answers to your questions (or assumptions). You will find Kogan are the retailer and sell online, not through retailers (probably one of the reasons for a more realistic price tag)

I've since learned that netbooks here are much more expensive than netbooks in places like the US, so either Kogan is making good profit or they have actually got a quality netbook. But generally Kogan's RRP is not just cheaper than the RRP of brand-name devices; it's usually cheaper than the wholesale prices for other cheap goods.


but you may prefer to imagine they must be evil and inferior because of their more realistic pricing than dig with me.

The cheap no-name electronics die very quickly as they are simply inferior. They are cheap because they are inferior in quality to the name brands; not as much reputation to protect, you see. The netbook is what I'd call "realistic pricing" considering what those sort of things go for in the US, but I still wouldn't trust other Kogan products.

I don't think Kogan is evil, I think they're simply selling the cheapest Chinese stuff to anybody who doesn't have experience with returns and DOAs.

[Bucky Ball]

Their support seems flimsy now the netbooks are out. I wasn't assuming I knew what was inside one before now as no-one did; they provided no details, so didn't have any idea whether they were cheap Chinese or not. Most components do, of course, come, at least in part, even in the quality 'name' brands.

Most electrical components are made in China? No kidding??? No-name inferior? Afraid what you're telling me is old news, but hopefully it will help someone else. I build two or three eco-friendly, energy efficient machines a year - usually multimedia workstations - using the longest lasting, best quality, quietest, coolest, most suitable components I can find. I'll shortly be posting a about a build I did in February which may help some folk looking to save energy, environment and a bit of cash. I will post a link here when I do.

The only thing I was attempting to point out was that jumping to conclusions before actually knowing facts is like saying the fish is off before you smell it. Now we are getting to know more. Have a look at what users are saying in the real world and find out what's really inside:

http://www.kogan.com.au/blog/2009/mar/17/australias-cheapest-netbook/

I didn't buy one because I wanted to know the facts before outlaying the cash (and they seem to have no Energy Star on any of their merchandise, let alone netbook - the 4400 battery doesn't say much even if it is 6 cell). Now let's see what the future holds, how long they last and what teething problems they have.

No DOAs reported on the blog though. They sound sturdy enough, but I, too, have doubts about 'what's in the box'. :)

ps: As for the returns and DOAs; I repeat, I couldn't dig up any complaints about Kogan on independent websites, would be interested if you can. Then again, they have never sold a netbook ... it is a bit much to assume the problem before one had been released to be DOA or returned, though!

[miracleworker]

My battery test result: 3 hours 45 minutes under "normal" workload.
During the test I downloaded and installed sun-java6-jdk and NetBeans 6.5.1 over wireless (plus a number of other small downloads), and did some Java development work in Netbeans.
Obviously this wasn't under controlled conditions, but it gives me a feel for how long I can expect to work away from the wall.
Josh

[Bucky Ball]

That is the 6 cell Josh?

[kayno]

I brought the kogan agora pro, and whilst I am very impressed with the hardware, I think that gOS leaves a lot to be desired for.

Hardware wise, an excellent laptop. It has great specs, the keyboard is easy enough to use, the screen is the 'sweet-spot' size of 10", and the battery lasts around 4 hours. It is well priced for what you get.

gOS however let me down. The desktop may look pretty, but the menus were hard to use and look like the web did in 1994 - no style! Plus the version of ubuntu it sits on is 8.04 - a year or 2 versions old.

I have since installed Ubuntu Netbook Remix (9.04), and find it much better than gOS. I would urge anyone with the kogan agora to ditch gOS, forget about windows, and install Ubuntu Netbook Remix. I have documented installing and setting up wireless adapter and touchpad at http://agoranetbook.kayno.net/.

kayno

[Bucky Ball]

kayno, UNR seems to be the go from what people are saying on their blog also. That is what I would have gone for immediately if I'd have bought one. Which I may still do!!!

Good work with posting the how-to for Agora users. I've noticed your helpful hints on their blog also. :)

BTW, 8.04 LTS is the long term support version and is what I use on all three machines. Rock solid and going strong, not really a matter of out dated as is fully supported for another 3 years (from memory). I don't own a netbook though. You would probably find Ubuntu 9.04 might be just as bad as 8.04 on the Agora in comparison to UNR which is designed specifically for this type of device.