Why does everyone say Linux is so complicated?

[NintendoTogepi]

If you get a friendly distro like Ubuntu, I see nothing that's any more complicated than Windows. :confused:

[Flyingjester]

ignorance of what linux is.. case in point, i thought it was still all command line when i installed it in 07

[MikeTheC]

Um, at a guess... because there's a lot of stupid people out there?

I mean, there's a lot of lazy, self-serving, non-tech-enthusiast people out there?

Uh... I don't know, dude. You tell me.

[benny bronx]

Agreed. When I installed 6.06, I had my sleeves rolled up, ready to do battle. I was surprised when within an hour or so, I had a fully functional OS.

[kevin11951]

Ubuntu is the exception, go install arch, slackware, or gentoo, then come back here and we will talk. :)

[NintendoTogepi]

Windows is actually more complicated IMO with all of the issues. I've never seen anything quite as bad as when Windows breaks. (I should know, because I still use mostly Windows)

[NintendoTogepi]

Ubuntu is the exception, go install arch, slackware, or gentoo, then come back here and we will talk. :)

Of course those will be complicated, they're meant to be. But people act like ALL Linux is exactly like Arch and Gentoo, when in reality Ubuntu is probably the second easiest OS around. (only behind OS X)

Edit: Sorry for the double post

[bakedbeans4life]

Windows users label Linux as complicated because outside of their warm comfortable bubble, it is. But even to contemplate tackling that Internet thingy without the big blue "E", it just can't be done.

[whoop]

Maybe some of us are forgetting that allot of us like to get into trouble a bit and fixing/learning. We think it's fun education other think it's complicated.

Linux seems more complicated than windows cause linux has no limits/borders. So the possibilities are endless.

[kevin11951]

Windows users label Linux as complicated because outside of their warm comfortable bubble, it is. But even to contemplate tackling that Internet thingy without the big blue "E", it just can't be done.

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[Sealbhach]

Newer Linux distros like Ubuntu and Fedora are easy, but apparently before three or four years ago you had know exactly what you were doing to use any Linux distro.

Also, beginners who ask for help on forums are often asked to use a command in the terminal and the poor beginner thinks.... ZOMG!! The terminal, the black hole of nothingness, the portal of Hell!!... Don't make me go in there!! (which was my reaction).



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[Transien]

If you get a friendly distro like Ubuntu, I see nothing that's any more complicated than Windows. :confused:

What you are forgetting is that Windows is complicated to many end-users. My mother gets hopelessly lost when it comes to importing photos from a digital camera, or moving files from a USB drive to her "My Documents" folder. Heaven forbid she accidentally deletes the Windows Media Player icon off her desktop. She'll have to call me over to "fix her computer."

And don't think this is just an issue with her because of her age. Of course that's a big part of it, but I know many people my age who don't know anything about computers past very basic functions. They know a very specific route through the Start Menu to find the programs they want, and if anything gets moved or changed they don't know what to do.

The point of this rant is that Linux is different, nothing more, nothing less; but that is enough to keep 99% of the people in the world from trying it out. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

:roll:

[Sarai the Geek]

Maybe because it is more complicated. Even with nicer, easier distros, anytime you are installing a new operating system on a computer you are going to run into problems.
Think about a prefabbed computer with Windows vista preloaded on it. Sound, networking, graphics, etc should all pretty much run out of the box, and if they don't you can call up microsoft or the computer manufacturer and after some waiting get a technician on the phone who will walk you through it.
When I installed Ubuntu on my laptop the first time, it took me a week or so of tinkering before it had anything beyond basic functionality, and I had to use some command line-fu to get there. Once a linux computer is set up it has more functionality, but getting to that point is more complicated than with a preloaded os.

[shadow_code]

A major reason is obviously because a lot of people have learnt to use Windows, and when something doesn't work like Windows they get confused.

Another major reason I'd say would be that almost all commonly used programs are GUI. Linux is still relatively speaking, much more CLI based.

But coming from my personal experience:

Ubuntu Live CD did not work at my first attempt (couldn't select "Install"! since my keyboard and mouse wasn't working). Was fixed for me in a latter release
The next release I tried would not shutdown at all. I had to force it every time.
My standby and hibernate options currently don't work. The resolution gets all messed up, or just crashes.
My wireless card wasn't compatible, causing me weeks of fustration (booting back into Windows to access forums * 20) until I gave up and didn't touch Linux for another 6 months. Without internet at the start is very hard :(. I ended up getting an external adapter.
DVD movie support isn't easily achieved
Can't access MS Access 2007 databases at all (so far)
SMB shares arn't built into the file manager I'm using (Thunar)
Half my media keys do not work
etc...


A lot of this stuff is simply to do with Windows designed products and compatibility, so I don't blame Linux at all. But can you see why I found it hard? I'm loving it now though! Never going back :P

[kaldor]

Teach a new user how to install Java.

Teach a user how to compile things from source.

Have the user make his hardware work with Linux.


That is when it gets complicated. :(

[mamamia88]

if you have used windows your entire life and you try something thats different of course you are going to think it's difficult. but now that i have been using linux windows seems complicated

[perlluver]

Slackware is actually pretty easy to install, answer some questions, and let it go to work. You will have a very decent installation. But when you get to the CLI, that is when you go hmmph. You just type startx and you will be in KDE/XFCE/Whatever, but not a lot of people will know that.

On the other hand I agree a little with compiling from source, it is not bad, but pretty difficult if you've never done it. I guess it is to each there own, some are good in Windows, some are good in Linux, and some in Mac's.

Use what works for you. That is what I always tell people that think Linux is to hard to use.

[Polygon]

arch linux is a perfect example. Linux IS complicated most of the time

ive been using linux for 3 years, took me 2 weeks (on and off) to get it fully running, and even then, i cant get printing to work for some odd reason, and it took me a long time to first figure out how to get my wireless working on that laptop (lots of googling and rummaging through forums, compiling, etc).

[SunnyRabbiera]

Windows is actually more complicated IMO with all of the issues. I've never seen anything quite as bad as when Windows breaks. (I should know, because I still use mostly Windows)
Agreed, over time windows gets harder as it attracts more issues, more viruses, and MS is years behind to give out a bugfix.

Ubuntu is the exception, go install arch, slackware, or gentoo, then come back here and we will talk. :)
No there are other distros out there that are easy to install too, Mandriva seems quite easy.
Heck even debian lenny seems easy to install.

[geoken]

I'm sure people like shadow_code and myself who spent days trying to make wifi and printers work (to no avail) and temporarily went back to Windows feel a real kinship with the Linux community when people like MikeTheC make sure to let us know that there's nothing wrong with Linux and we're simply "lazy", "self-serving" and "stupid".

Anyway, the short answer to the OP's question is 'broad manufacturer hardware support'. I've never heard of a Windows user manually editing printer drivers/postscript files to get their printers working.

[geoken]

i feel that anyone w/o an a+ cert, or equiv. does not have the right to use a computer... im going for my a+ cert this summer, so that i dont look like a hypocrite myself.

First off you already look like a hypocrite.

Secondly, I'm glad that people like you who wish to restrict the free flow of knowledge and information are in the minority. Ubuntu wouldn't exist if Shuttleworth thought like you.

[SunnyRabbiera]

First off you already look like a hypocrite.

Secondly, I'm glad that people like you who wish to restrict the free flow of knowledge and information are in the minority. Ubuntu wouldn't exist if Shuttleworth thought like you.

Agreed, I hate elitists.

[kevin11951]

First off you already look like a hypocrite.

Secondly, I'm glad that people like you who wish to restrict the free flow of knowledge and information are in the minority. Ubuntu wouldn't exist if Shuttleworth thought like you.

Agreed, I hate elitists.

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[Transien]

I am just saying, that people should have a slight knowledge of computers before that own one, and if you put ubuntu on your computer, you can pass the a+ exam.

I sure hope you know how to change the oil in your car. Can you repair your AC when it breaks down? What about your dishwasher? Any idea how to change the filters in it?

Don't tell me you'd use the internet to find out. That's cheating on the level of not having an a+ cert.

You're absurd.

[aysiu]

If you get a friendly distro like Ubuntu, I see nothing that's any more complicated than Windows. :confused: They say it's complicated because Windows comes preinstalled on their computers, and they didn't necessarily vet their hardware for Linux compatibility before trying Ubuntu. They also sometimes think (because of all the Linux hype in the tech news and blogs) that Ubuntu is essentially Windows but free and virus-free instead of thinking Ubuntu is something entirely different.

i feel that anyone w/o an a+ cert, or equiv. does not have the right to use a computer... im going for my a+ cert this summer, so that i dont look like a hypocrite myself. I don't have an A+ cert or equivalent and never plan to. So now you're going to tell me I don't have a right to use a computer? That's ridiculous.

[Dekkon]

Um, at a guess... because there's a lot of stupid people out there?

I mean, there's a lot of lazy, self-serving, non-tech-enthusiast people out there?

Uh... I don't know, dude. You tell me.

Ya, cause it's the users fault they aren't tech savvy, enthusiastic about technology, and don't want to add more time to there busy day to learn how to use yet more technology.

[kevin11951]

OK! im sorry, just pretend i never said anything!

[Greg]

A couple reasons:

-1) The fact that you need to set it up yourself, making a conscious effort of installing an OS, searching for drivers, etc. On Windows machines as well, it's not that fun to search the internet for drivers. If you don't have them given to you, it very well may be more annoying than Linux. But since all that is solved for you on Windows since it comes pre-loaded, it's a moot point.

-2) CLI-Phobia. Terminal is very scary for people, and prototypically geek. It doesn't matter if it's a simple copy paste, a basic command that's described to them, most people want no part of it. They assume that because it's text it's too complicated for them to understand. Just another one of those uber geek things.

-3) Support mentality. People expect professional service. When they have a problem, they want to be able to call up, find themselves talking to a non-native english speaker, and demand for someone in America. The forums/IRC method, while often more efficient, is too different for many people. It's casual, and therefore unsettling.

[Redache]

i feel that anyone w/o an a+ cert, or equiv. does not have the right to use a computer... im going for my a+ cert this summer, so that i dont look like a hypocrite myself.


That make's next to no sense. The A+ is meant to be a certification for a Junior IT Tech that has at LEAST 2 years experience. It is also fairly heavily weighted on Windows Conventions (At least when I studied for it it was, never actually took the test for numerous reasons) so it actually becomes useless if you want to use Linux.

I don't see why anybody would need one to be honest, it's not even that highly regarded as a qualification (When compared with Vendor specific ones).

Not everyone needs to know how to throw together a computer and then install Windows and Set Up a Network so that they can go near the internet.

I have no problem with Plug N Play, Point N Click Users, Not everyone cares about IT as much as I do and that's OK with me. They create art, Cook Food, Read Books, Cycle, Run etc. I edit Config Files.

[oobuntoo]

In the U.S., more than 50% don't go to college. They are referred to as Joe Sixpack or average Americans. More than 50% of those who go to college don't major in computer-related fields. To most of the people just mentioned, any computer-related stuff is probably complicated.
BTW, knowing how to chat online or surf internet does not constitute knowing how a computer works.

[jimi_hendrix]

1) people dont want to learn something new
2) people are afraid to try something knew
3) they dont know a linux user/have ever seen linux so they think it must be used by some geekie anti MS/Apple fringe group

[gymophett]

Ubuntu is no more complicated than Windows or Mac, but there are some distros which are complicated, like Arch, oh that was a hell of a time X[

[jimi_hendrix]

Ubuntu is no more complicated than Windows or Mac, but there are some distros which are complicated, like Arch, oh that was a hell of a time X[

false!

just follow the wiki and your fine...anyone who can read can install arch

[Sealbhach]

OK! im sorry, just pretend i never said anything!

I think people who work in tech support would probably sympathise with you. Some people want to use a computer but absolutely refuse (or are afraid) to learn even the simplest things about how it works. They want it to just "do stuff". I'm thinking of people who don't know how to create a shortcut on their desktop, for example.


.

[gymophett]

false!

just follow the wiki and your fine...anyone who can read can install arch

Lol. I read the installation guide over and over, and it was still hard. Lol. And I'm pretty computer literate.

[id1337x]

1. Proponents of Windows have created a massive delusion that using Linux requires that you compile it yourself and then install the user land yourself. This is true for some distributions so they narrow the scope of their analysis to them.
2. Most people haven't tried it yet so they don't really know the truth for themselves.

[Shawn K]

Well, I can tell you why I used to think that Linux was complicated.

Mostly, it was because of my own ignorant misconceptions.

I had this sense that any Linux distro was over-the-top geeky, that I'd have to know how to read binary, that I'd have to write half of the OS myself, that I'd have to memorize every command in the library just to open my email... if there was an ignorant misconception, I had it.

Then one day, I just realized "Y'know, there was a time that I didn't know anything about Windows. Why should this be any different?" So I decided to look into Ubuntu. I burned an .iso file onto CD, ran it for about 5 minutes, and thought "Shoot... I sure had this wrong."

I backed up all my personal files, had the HD wiped clean of anything Windows, made a clean-sheet Ubuntu install, and haven't looked back.

I've been using it for a month or two now, and frankly, I don't know why I wallowed around in my ignorance for so long. I should have done this years ago. The learning curve I've had as been a real joy to me, because now I feel like I'm actually learning something productive, rather than learning how to do a bunch of crap in Windows just to make it work like it's supposed to.

I'm so stoked on Linux/Ubuntu that my wife is just about ready to let me clean-sheet her system as well.

[NintendoTogepi]

Teach a new user how to install Java.
It's not that bad. You have to install a new Java on certain Windows computers as well.

Teach a user how to compile things from source.
That is almost never required.

Have the user make his hardware work with Linux.
I've tried Ubuntu on...4 computers now. Complete functionality with all four, out of the box.


That is when it gets complicated. :(

.

[Martin Marshalek]

Because computers nowadays have become too easy for everyone to use and know nothing but how to click and icon and open office software or a web browser. People stopped caring to learn something more than what they need.

As for compiling things and the command line, I have never had to compile software for Linux ever and every command in the command line makes sense and are, for that reason, very easy to remember.

If anyone says that Linux is hard because you have to compile software, then Windows is hard because you always have to go into the registry (not really but I do that about as often as I compile anything sooo:rolleyes:).

[Sarai the Geek]

In the U.S., more than 50% don't go to college. They are referred to as Joe Sixpack or average Americans. More than 50% of those who go to college don't major in computer-related fields. To most of the people just mentioned, any computer-related stuff is probably complicated.


Mmmm, I disagree. I don't know anyone in a computer science field, including myself. But I do know a fair few people who are excellent with computers, once again including myself. I think technological ability is more of a talent than a skill, either you have the computer bug or you don't.

[k2t0f12d]

Ubuntu is the exception, go install arch, slackware, or gentoo, then come back here and we will talk. :)

Installed Arch in <=1 hour and had a fully functional desktop environment.

[jocheem67]

I think that ubuntu is an exception in the sense that it is the most fool-proof linux distro.
When after installing all hardware is recognized, one has the privilege of looking at a "ready to be productive" os.
This is a major achievement of ubuntu, especially for new users, who get the feeling that linux is not geeky or strange anymore....

When or if there's emerging hardware troubles, that's where the complicated stuff roll in, i.e. ndiswrapper, sound, fstab, grub, all the well known topics in this forum....

There's always a moment in time where the user has to be able and willing to learn new stuff, may it be going into the terminal, or may it be learning the new applications...

However I do feel more and more that ubuntu is getting to serve both the illiterate and the CLI-junkie more and more.

Most is dependable on the motivation of the ( new ) user ), not so much on knowing C++ or whatever.

[WatchingThePain]

We have a thing here..the European computer driving license. Are schools not teaching basic computer literacy? wtf are they teaching?.

[73ckn797]

OK! im sorry, just pretend i never said anything!

You said it and it is out for all to see. Should have thought about what you said before advertising your attitude(s) so quickly.

[tsali]

Here's a different flavor for you...

I used Linux on my x86 box exclusively for five years before being driven to Windows XP out of frustration with Mandriva.

On the same hardware, Windows XP was immediately easier...easier to install, easier to configure and easier to use. It has remained stable and malware free.

This coming from someone who had never owned a Windows machine before.

Windows and Linux ARE different...

[Giant Speck]

Of course Linux is complicated. Why is complicated used so negatively?

[Eisenwinter]

Arch Linux is not complicated at all, it takes less time to install than Ubuntu.

[Tibuda]

Arch Linux is not complicated at all, it takes less time to install than Ubuntu.

Faster is not the same as easier.

[xpod]

OK! im sorry, just pretend i never said anything!

Sorry,cant help myself i`m afraid..
The sad fact is that most of those who i have seen complaining about how complicated Linux is are the self-proclamied experts who love nothing more than to tell you just how many "certs" they have.They think that because they cant understand it then the mom & pops out there have no hope what-so-ever......ok

It`s a complete myth i tell you[-(

[Chame_Wizard]

Because WINDOWS people are thinking that you have to use the terminal for everything,while you only need it for system privileges.

Learning another system can be difficult sometimes,so you have to be patient.:lolflag:

[aviedw]

For most people different is difficult. So if your brought up in the world of linux which is almost exclusively GUI. You have to give linux time. You have to give your self a chance to learn a new way of computing. I've decided to completly dump windows. I only have linux and mac os x. Windows is simply not worth the effort that goes into it. Maybe my thoughts might change with windows 7 but for now im sticking with linux and my mac.

[Simian Man]

What you are forgetting is that Windows is complicated to many end-users. My mother gets hopelessly lost when it comes to importing photos from a digital camera, or moving files from a USB drive to her "My Documents" folder. Heaven forbid she accidentally deletes the Windows Media Player icon off her desktop. She'll have to call me over to "fix her computer."

And don't think this is just an issue with her because of her age. Of course that's a big part of it, but I know many people my age who don't know anything about computers past very basic functions. They know a very specific route through the Start Menu to find the programs they want, and if anything gets moved or changed they don't know what to do.

The point of this rant is that Linux is different, nothing more, nothing less; but that is enough to keep 99% of the people in the world from trying it out. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

:roll:

You are absolutely right. When you become good at something it is extremely difficult to remember how it felt beforehand. The fact is most computer users don't really understand computers and, more importantly, don't really care. They just want to use their computer to do specific tasks. Keep that in mind when you talk to people about Linux.

[Lunx]

i feel that anyone w/o an a+ cert, or equiv. does not have the right to use a computer... im going for my a+ cert this summer, so that i dont look like a hypocrite myself.

I'd be brushing up on punctuation and spelling then...
I hope your comment is tongue in cheek, not sure my six year old cousin is quite ready to be sitting exams for those quals.

[WatchingThePain]

Ok I read that A+ is not that highly regarded in the industry but the study material is useful as it deals with hardware and is enough for a person to be able to build their own pc.

[yther]

[read the first couple pages of this thread but am running short on time now...]

I was thinking last night that Ubuntu has caused some problems for me because it is too easy to install! :shock:

Yes, that's right. When I loaded Kubuntu on this machine, I pretty much didn't have to do anything except pop in the CD, figure out what size to make my partitions, and update. I had a functional OS in about an hour, ready to start tweaking. (We're going to conveniently overlook the 4 hours I spent trying to make the install CD work, only to find that a BIOS setting was causing it to crash...) I didn't have to read through an installation guide or do much of anything to prepare. As a result, I wound up knowing almost nothing about how the system actually works.

A few years ago when I installed Gentoo, it was completely different. I read through their very detailed installation guide, and even printed it out so I could check things off and make notes. In the course of setting up my machine for the first time, I found out how the init-script system worked, where the network configuration was, how to set up my environment and locale, how to control services, and many more essential things. I wouldn't call it a difficult experience, just a bit long, but an excellent way to learn how everything fits together. I still raise an eyebrow when people say Gentoo is complicated; sure, you're compiling stuff all the time, but is there really that much difference between "emerge kde" and "apt-get install kde-desktop"? ;)

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm all for easy setup, and I chose Ubuntu precisely because I didn't want to spend a couple of days building packages before my system was ready to use. It did its job very well, but by requiring less knowledge to start with, it left me knowing less.

[sydbat]

The fact is most computer users don't really understand computers and, more importantly, don't really care. They just want to use their computer to do specific tasks.This is absolutely true. I have been asked to help someone with their computer and they think it is more a toy than anything useful. Yet they have to use a computer at work to be productive. It is a strange dichotomy, but this is the way many people think about computers in general.

[FraggedLocust]

I think Men In Black says it best:
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

[WatchingThePain]

Yes Panicky Dangerous, but you forgot irritating and also the animals feel insulted.