School Project - What is better for Home use, Windows Vista or Linux Ubuntu? [Archive]

billgoldberg

February 26th, 2009, 09:42 AM

Desktop Features

I'm not sure what you mean with this.

Ubuntu comes the Gnome desktop enviroment and also has Compiz Fusion installed.

Gnome features a easy to use desktop and includes things like desktopsearch, volume control, clock, multiple desktops, ...

Compiz Fusion creates nice effects and some useful effects (scale, expo, ...) that will improve your effectiveness.

More information on gnome.org.

Installation of Software Applications

Software installation on Ubuntu is surely different from Windows Vista, but it can be a lot easier and safer.

Software installation is done using Add/Remove or Synaptic, both front-ends for APT (advanced package tool).

Ubuntu hosts loads of software. Using add/remove or synaptic you can search for a package, or browse categories of software, and install it with a few mouseclicks.

Besides the easy of use, this is also a very safe way to install software as you know it's malware free.

There are also sites that provide .deb packages. Think of them as the equivalent of the .exe installers you get in Windows, just double click to install.

There are other ways to install software, but those are the easiest of most used ones.

Drivers

The Linux kernel has the most hardware support OOTB compared to any other kernel (including the windows and osx kernels).

If a driver isn't in the kernel, Ubuntu will prompt you to install it upon first boot.

If for some reason it isn't in the repositories or kernel, you can download the driver from the website of the manufacturer and install it manually.

Gaming

There are games out there for Linux and some Windows only games can be run using Wine (not an emulator!) but it is lacking compared to Windows.

Security

Linux is by design safer than Windows Vista.

I'll throw some terms at you that the people you are making this presentation for won't understand:

- app armor
- sudo
- all installed software gets security updates, not just the OS
- open source: bugs are found faster and patched much faster
- smaller user base, thus less malicious attacks

But don't give people the impression they are bullet proof when using linux.

Because most people use Gnome or KDE they aren't 100 percent safe.

You can still get tricked into opening a malicious file and without knowing it you could get infected with all sorts of walware.

Word Processing

I guess the best know Word processor is Oo Writer, but there are loads of others.

My favorite being Abiword.

It's extremely fast and can save as .doc.

Media

Ubuntu can play most media files without any problem.

Just install the codecs and you're good.

It won't however play your DRM infected itunes or windows media files.

Ubuntu has loads of audio and video players, I'm thinking amarok, banshee, exaile, rhytmbox, xmms, totem, vlc, xine, ...

Also available are the so called mediacenter applications (think Windows Media Center). My favorite is Boxee. Other like Myth tv, xmbc, elisa, ... are pretty good.

Different Computer Filesystems

Ubuntu use the ext3 file system by default (will switch to ext4 on the next release).

Ext3 performs better than NTFS and hardly fragments, unlike NTFS.

But there are many other FS available. I use ReiserFS myself.

---

I suggest you take a look at my blog (see signature), on the top there is a page called "try ubuntu". I'm sure you'll find it very useful.

Onesimus

February 26th, 2009, 09:47 AM

My son (aged 13) was given a school project that involved using Windows Movie Maker. It was a project that was to be done in class, as well as to be continued at home. The school has windows operating systems (XP or Vista) on their computers. I am aware of the many Linux multimedia editing software, but they are not sufficiently mature to be used seamlessly with windows Movie maker.

My son was left with no alternative but to using the school's library computers during his lunch hour - not ideal. He doesn't want to spend many hours switching between different applications, he just wants to get his project done. (Well, he'd prefer not to do it at all !)

Maybe with the UK government advocating open source software (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7910110.stm), things may change !

This has been the only difficulty, all other applications Ubuntu has done the job !

Anxious Nut

February 26th, 2009, 09:51 AM

You can talk about SSH (Secured Shell) it's awesome and useful, adding that you can not only use your files that are on your other computer but also using the programs that are installed on them such as every program you have firefox, VirtualBox, etc ;)

Scubdup

February 26th, 2009, 10:20 AM

As a new Ubuntu user I'd make a few points.

Ubuntu worked very well for me "out of the box". For many people this is the acidtest as to whether it can in any way compete with Windows.

But how does Windows work "out of the box" The test is not a fair one since most users will use a windows machine that has had windows installed and troubleshot by an expert vendor. If Ubuntu was given this attention before being presented to the end user I'm fairly certain it would match Windows in this regard.

Compability is another issue where Ubuntu and Windows compete. Should a test take into consideratio the fact that windows' vast market share means more component and periphery manufacturers work towards windows compatibility and support than for linux?

Following on, familiarity is another feature. Should the OSs be presented to a group of testers who have never used either before? Surely that would be a fairer test than using a group who have used one OS at school already.

Cost is another feature. "Better for home use" could be determined by availabilty. Many of the world's homes cannot afford expensive OSs.

Which system would be better if 90% of computers ran that system? That would be another question I'd have to think about. If 90% of computer users used Ubuntu the project would move forward incredibly quickly, I imagine.

Lots of questioons I would ask, but considering your topics:-

Desktop Features - Tied
Installation of Software Applications - Ubuntu for cleanness
Drivers - Windows because its market share dictates that manufacturers prioritise windows compatibility
Gaming - Windows for the reason above.
Security - Ubuntu, because it's open source.
Word Processing - Tie, because Open office is free and Word isn't infinitely better.
Media - Tied because Windows Media player is awful but Ubuntu can prove fiddly.
Different Computer Architectures - Tied. Not sure what is meant.
Different Computer Filesystems - Tied. Not sure what is meant.

Something to consider when looking at the responses: The average Ubuntu user will (IMO) know more about computing than the average Windows user.

PythonPower

February 26th, 2009, 10:27 AM

In the past I've found Windows much easier and still did until a few years ago. I guess I started learning it and it has improved so much (like adding driver support built-in; auto installing audio codecs; etc...) that I prefer it now. Except when I want to play games.

Most importantly for me, problems in Ubuntu actually get fixed; Windows seems stagnant in comparison.

MetalFanLiam

February 26th, 2009, 10:39 AM

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate this.

I will be putting areas, of not all of the quotes into my report

MFL

stim

February 26th, 2009, 10:48 AM

As a software developer I speak for myself and perhaps am a bit biased in this regard. I use Ubuntu as my primary OS for work purposes. Subversion integration in windoze is terrible, nearly to the point of being unusable. Installing and configuring development tools , IMO is easier and more straightforward in Linux.

A proper command line in Linux is CRUCIAL. I do 95% of my work through the command line. All you need to start programming on a debian-based linux system (like ubuntu) is to install the "build-essential" metapackage.

That being said, I do have a dual boot system with Vista for gaming purposes. I also have an xbox 360 which streams media from windows media center.

Each system has its pros and cons although Windows' strengths tend to rely on vendor support and compatibility due to a huge market share; Linux's strengths include unrestricted ability to do whatever you'd like as far as customising your system, as well as the ability to make contributions to free , open source projects that you possibly use everyday.

P.S. Did I mention Ubuntu Linux is FREE?

In an economic time like this, who wants to pay $150-200 for a copy of Vista, and then another $100 on Microsoft Office (which for most people is something they would consider necessary software).

howlingmadhowie

February 26th, 2009, 11:24 AM

I am currently compiling a report on whether Ubuntu or Vista is more suitable for home use.

well that depends a lot upon what you do at home with the computer. i tend to write software and webpages, watch videos on youtube and share files using bittorrent.

Desktop Features
Installation of Software Applications
Drivers
Gaming
Security
Word Processing
Media
Different Computer Architectures
Different Computer Filesystems

the gnome desktop environment is much more fully featured than windows, as i remember it. but the last time i used windows was 98SE, so things may have changed there. Does vista come with professional quality ray-tracing software? how about image manipulation? what about type-setting software? i don't know, but i'd be surprised if it did. heck it, vista doesn't even have an ftp client as far as i know.

installation of software under most consumer-oriented gnu/linux distributions is trivial. you just point and click and the software is downloaded and installed in the background. if i recall correctly with windows you have to go to different sites and find the software you want.

the linux kernel supports more hardware than any other operating system i know of. there does however seem to be a certain delay before modern pieces of consumer hardware can be supported. the reasons for this are well-known.

i don't play games much.

i once had a problem with security in that somebody guessed my password using brute force and logged themselves in over ssh. they didn't know what they were doing so i managed to undo the changes they had made.

word-processing. if you mean wysiwyg-stuff there are a number of free software products available. i tend to use mark-up languages when i write documents, going from rst or similar up to LaTeX. once you reach a certain level, wysiwyg word-processing just doesn't cut it anymore.

media. i can watch the stuff i want to, and i use audacity to edit audio files. apart from that i don't have much to do with media.

different computer architectures. well gnu/linux supports quite a few. i'd have to check the kernel sources to find out how many but i think it's about 25 different architectures. i have personally used gnu/linux systems on

i86,
i86-64,
sparc v9,
mipsel,
alpha,
hppa,
ppc (32-bit),
xscale,

all of which worked stably and quickly.

file systems. how many does linux support nowadays? somewhere around 200 i think. default file system is probably ext3 nowadays, but this will probably change to ext4 and then something with versioning and other tricks in the near future. all of these have journals and don't fragment until you have near 100% disk usage. do you still need to defragment in vista? i don't know. if i remember correctly you could lose information in the case of a crash under 98se. what's that like in vista?

as you can tell, i don't know much about vista, so i can only tell you what i know about the current state of ubuntu and gnu/linux.

God Of Atheism

February 26th, 2009, 02:13 PM

Obligatory disclaimer: I've hardly used Vista (I had at some point to use my now former boss' laptop with Vista and I did back in the time of the public beta/rc download and install Vista, but not seriously use it), I do have more experience with other versions of Windows, and I have used a number of GNU/Linux distributions.

Desktop Features
This depends, which version of Vista, which GNU/Linux distribution with which desktop environment? When it comes to features, there is no simple answer here. When it comes to ease of use, the differences between the different GUIs are negligible, and afaik, all allow for customization.

Installation of Software Applications
In general I find this easier and faster on GNU/Linux than on Windows, but of course it depends on the specific application as well as on the GNU/Linux distribution. My experience with installations on Windows is that they require at least one, if not more restarts of the computer. This might have changed on Vista though, a platform on which I have no experience installing software. For GNU/Linux, nowadays, quite a few distributions provide some form of package management and dependency checking making things rather easy. Gentoo will compile everything leading to much longer installation times to get performance improvements afterwards.

Drivers
There are even today still a lot of hardware vendors that do not provide GNU/Linux drivers. On the other hand, for Windows, instead of simple drivers, many hardware vendors provide a program that also phones home and eats up computer resources and in general is a rpita. Between the rock and the hard place, most of the time things just work out of the box on both OS families, apart from added functionality (for example, multimedia keys on keyboards). Exceptions are some discrete sound cards on GNU/Linux, sata drives on Windows (although here my experience is with windows xp and earlier, I assume that Vista does support them in a decent manner), graphics cards on both (2D mode on LCD monitors seems to be okay, 3D needs more work on both OS families, and I've had some bad 2D experience on both OS families when using CRT monitors)

Gaming
Very much depends on the type of games. In general Vista is a better choice here. However, if you just play simple games, the likes of which are browser based or included with the OS, then both families are about equal. When it comes to commercial games on the other hand, there just aren't a lot available for GNU/Linux. Some windows games work quite well under Wine, but quite a few others don't or with a serious lack of performance. I currently have a dual boot setup (Xubuntu and windows XP), with XP for gaming only, and Xubuntu for everything else.

Security
Vista made some improvements over previous Windows versions, leading to lots of user complaints. Lots of Windows software assumes superuser access at all times, and won't work without it. This is a huge security problem on Windows, something that Vista seemingly fixed by not anymore automatically providing superuser access to each and every process. However, this lead to the user being asked for superuser access by nearly all `legacy software' and many complaints and users simply giving that access without thinking. All that said, GNU/Linux is far more secure.

Word Processing
Personally I hate the wysiwig word processors since they're never really wysiwig and I prefer using LaTeX instead. That said, one can use word processors on both OS families, and neither does seem to offer any advantage over the other here (all other considerations, including price, left out).

Media
On both OS families, one will have to install extra software to get support for all codecs and media types. Afaik, that can be done on both, so little difference here.

Different Computer Architectures
Afaik, Vista only supports x86 and x86-64 (both Intel and AMD), whereas GNU/Linux supports quite a few more.

Different Computer Filesystems
I think nearly all different filesystems are supported by GNU/Linux, NFS, NTFS and FAT family should work under Vista as well, and it's probably possible to get some others working as well.

In addition, I'd like to remark that the hardware requirements for Vista are far higher (at least 2GB of ram, which might sound low nowadays, but for an older computer this can be an issue). Also, to actually get anything done on windows, I found cygwin (providing a UNIX-like shell) a necessity, GNU/Linux comes with many of those utilities. ADSL seems easier to set up on GNU/Linux, burning discs seems easier on GNU/Linux.

In general I'd say use windows for gaming and compilation of windows applications and GNU/Linux for everything else.

jonathonblake

February 26th, 2009, 02:15 PM

Ubuntu or Vista is more suitable for home use.

The _big_ issue is software programs. In as much as most Linux software uses an open source license, the porting issues are merely technical. Furthermore,most of the "major" applications for Linux are also available on Windows.

Desktop Features

This is pretty much an issue of user preference. Depending upon the Window Manager used in Linux, customization options are either the same as, or greater than that available on Windows. For those that want to dig into the code, Linux offers far more in both what, and how the desktop can be customised. (The oddest instance of this I've seen, is the Linux box that complained because the graphics monitor was turned on.)

Installation of Software Applications

It is much easier for a user to install software from a Linux repository, than a Windows repository. For software outside of the repository, it probably is a toss up between the two.

One nice feature of Linux, is that the only time it has to be rebooted, is when the kernel has been updated.(I have come across one hardware peripheral that allegedly required a system reboot, after being hooked up. The offender was a hardware peripheral from Comcast that did not install any software on the Linux box. (The peripheral hardware ran a Linux variant.)

Drivers

With Linux, the crucial issue is whether or not the hardware manufacturer has released the specifications of the products, or not. If they have, then it doesn't matter how old, or new the hardware is, you can use it with Linux.

With Windows, you are pretty much stuck with the drivers that come with the hardware. If you don't have the install disk, then you probably can't use it on Windows.

Gaming

More games are available for Windows, than Linux. Both platforms fail, when compared against a dedicated gaming console. (Though I'll grant that if Chess, Go, or other complex strategy games are your thing, the Linux standard bearers are more likely to defeat you, than anything on either a gaming console, or available on a Mac or Windows. IIRC, the most realistic flight simulation "game" is not yet available for any game consoles.)

Security

A vanilla install of Linux _usually_ is more secure than that of Windows. (There are a couple of distros where this is not the case.) Whilst Linux virii are known, their spread is fairly limited. Worms are a bigger issue on Linux.

The major security threat for both is trojans. Due to incompetent programming practices by windows developers, trojans can do far more damage to a windows box, than a linux box. (It is programming incompetence to require a program to run with root privileges --- which is the norm for software written for everything prior to the release of windows vista.

Word Processing

MSo offers more collaboration possibilities than OOo, or other Linux word processors.

Media

Media qua storage devices:
Back in 1999, I could read floppy drives from an Apple ][ or //e on a 386, formatted for P-System, on a Linux box. (I don't remember what customisations I had to do.) Probably the only storage device that can't be written to, on a Linux box, is Blu-ray.

For support of legacy storage devices, one might have to do some customisations of the kernel,and recompile it.

There are a couple of storage devices that won't work with Linux. As a general rule of thumb, drivers for these devices are only available for specific versions of Windows. (In at least one instance, a patch to Windows caused the storage device to no longer be recognised by Windows.

Media qua audio, graphics, AV, and other sensory constructs:
For media formats whose specifications have been publicly released, Windows and Linux are equal in their ability to present it.

Support of legacy/obsolete media formats is slightly better with Linux apps than Windows apps. However, most of the Linux apps are open source, and as such, can be ported to Windows

One factor that slightly favours Windows, is the prevalence of proprietary codecs for media display. OTOH, a number of these codecs serve no apparent function,other than as a vector in the spread of malware.

Different Computer Architectures

Linux is available for more chips than Windows.

Linux runs more different hardware peripherals than Windows. (This also gets back to the driver issue.)

Different Computer Filesystems

Out of the box, Linux has support for more different file systems than Windows. I'm not sure if a media centre qualifies as home use. None the less I'm setting up an old computer to use as my media centre.

One crucial issue is that Linux tends not to have support for media formats that are patent impaired. Windows OTOH, has no such limitation --- but Microsoft has run afoul of patents on several occasions.

#####

I probably should point out that the DSl and Internet cable vendors in the united states are literally unable to hook a Linux box up to their network, even though it uses standard Internet protocols. In the case of Comcast, that level of incompetence extends to their inability to support anything other than WinXP, and, if one is exceptionally lucky, WinVista.

This underscores one of the biggest obstacles in using Linux. Service vendors currently are either unwilling, or unable to provide _any_ support for Linux.

jonathon

The court in the southern city of Shenzhen on Wednesday sentenced 11 people to jail terms of up to six-and-a-half years for making high-quality counterfeit software that was sold in 36 countries, Microsoft said in a statement.

The first clue that genuine Microsoft products were not being offered, was that it was "high quality software".

notwen

February 26th, 2009, 02:34 PM

What is better for Home use, Windows Vista or Linux Ubuntu?

You'll get a different answer for different reasons from every user. Whether it be personal preference, learning curve, financial reasons, open-mindedness, hardware support; there are just way too many things to consider before trying to answer such a question.

I'd personally find it very hard to write a substantial report on this topic, as all answers would purely be opinion-based on that individual's specific situation, but best of luck w/ it regardless. =]

bashveank

February 26th, 2009, 03:37 PM

As a former Windows evangelist, a former Linux evangelist, a former OS X evangelist, current user of all three and advocate of using what's best for you, I would say that Windows is best for most home uses.

Desktop Features
I'm not sure what you mean by this, both Linux and Windows run programs, browse your hard drive, tell you the time, etc....

Installation of Software Applications
Linux definitely has the advantage here, you just put a check mark next to the program you want and it's running in a few minutes. Installing programs isn't hard on Windows, though.

Drivers
Windows generally has the advantage here, anything that you pick up from a department store will, almost definitely, work. There are exceptions, and sometimes you'll have to look around to find a driver, but usually everything will work a few minutes out of the box. Linux, on the other hand, is very hit or miss, and even when you have a hit, it usually takes a good bit of work on your part to get the hardware working to it's full capacity.

Gaming
Windows, hands down. The vast majority of good games will not run on Linux and will run on Windows. Theoretically Linux does have the potential to run games even better than Windows, but that doesn't matter because there aren't many Linux games. WINE may run some Windows games on Linux, but probably not the ones you want, and probably not as well as you want.

Security
Linux may have a slight advantage here. It certainly did against Windows XP, but with UAC in Vista, the biggest threat to security on both operating systems are careless users.

Word Processing
Windows runs MS Word flawlessly, MS Word is the industry standard.

Media
They're both more or less equal. Windows does have better apps for managing media though...
However, you simply wont be able to edit media on Linux. Windows, no problem.

Different Computer Architectures
Linux runs on more CPU chipsets than does Windows, but it really doesn't matter for home uses because everyone runs x86 anyway.

Different Computer Filesystems
Out of the box, Linux will read and write to more filesystems.

The court in the southern city of Shenzhen on Wednesday sentenced 11 people to jail terms of up to six-and-a-half years for making high-quality counterfeit software that was sold in 36 countries, Microsoft said in a statement.

The first clue that genuine Microsoft products were not being offered, was that it was "high quality software".
Source? A Google search only brings up the same quote, all on FOSS community forums.

BuffaloX

February 26th, 2009, 04:40 PM

So your home user doesn't use the internet?
That would explain why you don't mention security either.

Edit: Ups my mistake... (you have security in the list)

gjoellee

February 26th, 2009, 04:51 PM

Desktop Features
Installation of Software Applications
Drivers
Security

First of all I would like to say this: "Use what's best for YOU".

Desktop Features: Vista comes with some new effects, when closing windows and such. However those effects require a HUGE amount of RAM and CPU to run well.

Ubuntu Linux gives the opportunity to give a very light window manager called Compiz Fusion. If you have a bad graphics card you may not want to use it, but it has extremely many effects. You can ie: Make windows burn when you close them, and have 52 desktops if you would like it to be so.

Installation and Software: In Vista you mostly got .exe and .msi. In Ubuntu you have DEB (which is much like .exe or .msi in Windows) but you have Synaptic, Apt-Get, tarballs, and so much more!

There are over 20 000 DEB packages available, but you have many thousand other packages as well!

If you need to run software as Photoshop or some other software that is Windows only, you should keep on using Windows as they might not run will in programs like Wine or Crossover.

Drivers: Ubuntu will usually either make things like ei: sound and wireless work autmatically, or drivers are available in the menu System->Administration->Hardware Drivers. If they are not available try to check on the web.

vernonrj

February 26th, 2009, 04:54 PM

I'd say it really depends. Like all things, your mileage may vary with both platforms. I'll try to give my best summary.

Desktop Features
Goes to Ubuntu. I've never really used KDE, but gnome is definitely lots more flexible than Vista, especially when you factor in Compiz. If speed is what you want, use metacity (Ubuntu's default window manager). If you want pretty graphics, use compiz and emerald. If you want a sidebar like the one in Vista, use screenlets. Of course you don't need to imitate Vista. It's just nice to know that you can.

Installation of Software Applications
Ubuntu, but Vista is not far behind. The software repository is wonderful, and if you start looking beyond that, you get .deb's. Then you get source files... But, for the average user, it is easier to install software in Ubuntu.

Drivers
This one is tough, because most people get Vista with their computer, so the drivers will work. Once you get to installing Vista or XP yourself, you may find a different story. Vista can automatically search for drivers off of the internet, like Ubuntu. This mostly works, but I'm not sure if you can do the same for OEM drivers (media-specific buttons, etc). However, in XP, you will probably have to find all the drivers yourself, like my dad did when he installed XP on a notebook. In Ubuntu, most of my hardware worked... halfway. Sony does not like linux. Most people have better luck than me. The big difference was that there was so much information from other users in Ubuntu. It just takes a bit of Googling. Anyway, in summary for this one, I'd say it's a toss-up, since I have all my main hardware working in Ubuntu, and my dad can't get his wireless lan to work in XP...

Gaming
Windows, no question. The reasons have already been summarized over and over again.

Security
Ubuntu, although Windows did make an honest effort to improve security with their User Account Control (UAC). For those that don't know, UAC works like sudo... except not as good. I turned it off pretty quickly, because I hated it. It was incredibly restrictive, and at some points it seemed like overkill. I'm not even sure how much it helped. Of course there's the viruses, malware, worms, spyware, adware, etc that really do plague Windows. Whatever the reason (kernel or majority market-share) windows is more prone to viruses. Running an antivirus is not optional, and running a third-party firewall is recommended in Vista. In ubuntu, you can do these security measures, but you don't have to be so obsessive about it (if you're just a home user).

Word Processing
It's really all about preference. If you feel that microsoft office is worth shelling out a modest sum of money for, go for it. Otherwise, Open Office has come a long way in Open Office 3.0. Loading is definitely faster than Word (at least 2003), and Oo can open and save word documents.
I've heard good things about AbiWord, too, but I've never used it.

Media
I would have to say Vista, and VLC is the saving grace, since it's on windows and linux. Media can be pretty finicky on ubuntu (for me), and windows hasn't had many problems in this.

Different computer architectures
I've only used 32-bit, so I can't say.

Different Computer Filesystems
I would definitely say EXT3 beats out NTFS any day.
Both of them do support journaling. Journaling basically keeps your memory from being corrupted. It keeps a log of disk changes (hence, journaling) and if something goes wrong in the write process, it can revert the file and try again. That's why hard shutdowns aren't as bad for your computer as they used to be. However, I'd say linux wins because of the choices you have. Plus, EXT4 is probably going to leave NTFS in the dust.

And the best OS for home use is...
I have no clue. Like someone said before, each has their pros and cons. Windows enjoys a higher market share, while linux enjoys imho a much better community. Windows is actually very user friendly, while most flavors of linux have a much higher learning curve, but are more flexible.

I'd say that it completely depends on what you want from your computer. I found an article not too long ago that you may find useful toward your project, called Linux is NOT Windows (http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm). The title is hyperlinked, but here's the url if for some reason it doesn't work: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

Are you planning to post this question in a Windows forum? I think it would be interesting to see the responses. I hope this excessively long post helps.

PuddingKnife

February 26th, 2009, 05:00 PM

I think Ubuntu is all around better than Windows, except of course for gaming. And OS X is better than both of them.

I dual-boot with XP so that I can continue to play World of Warcraft and a few other games.

I have tried unsuccessfully to get games to work in Ubuntu. Very unsuccessfully.
Apparently if I want to play Scorched Earth or any FPS that Ive failed at getting to work, I have to disable compiz and try to remember how all my settings were when Im finished playing. Then turn compiz back on and get everything back to the way I had it before I fatefully decided to play a game.

If I want to play WoW, I would have to use Wine, cross my fingers, and continuously bump my "please help me for gods sake" thread in the Wine sub-forum. And pray.

So yea, games is the biggest issue I have in regards to dumping Windows.. I just cant dump Windows, much as Id love to ..

happysmileman

February 26th, 2009, 05:05 PM

Installation of Software Applications
Drivers
Security
Different Computer Architectures
Different Computer Filesystems

Linux wins hands down on these categories, it should be easy to find technical articles with good reasons (Or an explanation of the package manager for the first one).

Windows probably wins outright for Gaming due to much larger amount of games.

For the rest you'll probably just get opinion pieces. Keep that in mind. For word processing it's really a matter of "If you prefer Microsoft Word, Windows is better, otherwise they're equal".
For media DRM would be Vista's downfall.

MetalFanLiam

February 26th, 2009, 05:41 PM

Are you planning to post this question in a Windows forum? I think it would be interesting to see the responses. I hope this excessively long post helps.

Yes I am, as one side of my report would have a lot more information in comparison to the other, if I didn't. Also helps eradicate SOME bias, however achieving no bias whatsoever isn't exactly possible.

Experience tells me that a vast majority of Windows users may introduce bias, purely because of the fact they don't want to know about anything that isn't Windows. This doesn't apply to everyone, so I hope I don't get responses like "Go buy Windows" or "Linux isn't even a proper OS", because I have had these comments before.

Thanks guys, this feedback is really helping me :) Of course, areas of all your feedback will be featured into my report somewhat.

MFL

bobmatino17

February 26th, 2009, 05:51 PM

well i might not be as much help as some other people( wINDOWS SUCKS!)but heres some info

ubuntu is easy to install, my friend is installing on his machine (manual partitoning too.) has an easy to use desktop interface that still has plenty of features for lovers of eyecandy. Its packed full of apps that the average home user would need or want, like Open Office, which is easy to use and can understand bascily any file format that a windows or Linux user would use, and a few games pre-installed to pass the time during a huge download or an installation. It can understand all file systems that I know of (fat 16/32, the ext's, rfs, xfs, ntfs). Its completely free of all charges for apps or codecs a user would want/need, plus the #1 reason of all .................................................. ........................
.................................................. ........................

ITS OPEN SOURCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vista on the other hand, looks nice, and.... i cant think of anything else good about vista.

MetalFanLiam

February 26th, 2009, 05:55 PM

I have posted on The Vista Forums to see what kinds of replies i get, the link is here:

http://thevistaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=51348

swoll1980

February 26th, 2009, 06:00 PM

If your not a gamer, or some one that is bound to cs3, there seems to be no advantage to using Windows over Linux.

SuperSonic4

February 26th, 2009, 06:23 PM

Would it be acceptable to talk about the KDE version of ubuntu: kubuntu?

The sections I will be writing about will be:

Desktop Features
KDE 4.2 looks a lot prettier than windows vista and the plasmoids allow a huge amount of functionality, because kde is free software there are hundreds of plasmoids available for installation. There is also a multirow taskbar to allow for more efficient spacing. Not to mention the desktop takes a far shorter amount of time to load

Installation of Software Applications
Adept is buggy but I find the whole idea of package managers and repositories far better than having to scour the internet for software. On top of that if I fancy a new piece of software but do not know exactly what I can load up adept and have a look around.

Drivers
For the most part driver detection is far superior in kubuntu and GNU/Linux in general, the system finds my devices and installs the driver whereas in windows I would have to go around the houses to find the drivers rebooting multiple times and wasting precious bandwidth. However, windows does work with more of my hardware but I believe this is due to hardware manufacturers rather than microsoft or ubuntu.

Gaming
Gaming is far better on windows, I only keep vista installed alongside kubuntu is so that I can play guitar hero on the pc. I, however, am not a gamer so I do not really care.

Security
GNU/Linux is inherently more secure than windows because of things such as sudo to elevate a user to root level for a short time. Also because few people use it, it means there are less attacks on it. On windows you'd need to connect to the internet to get protection software up and running in which time it may be too late

Word Processing
OpenOffice.org Writer comes to mind immediately and although I do prefer Office 07, writer is acceptable for use so I can stay in kubuntu, write a document and print it without a problem. Although not directly related to word processing the text editors Kate and nano far excel what windows can do by default. If I want to edit a file I do not want it saved as a txt file.

Media
Installing codecs is a small problem but medibuntu can solve that very quickly and efficiently and in no time at all it is the same as windows in context except for DRM which is crapware anyway.
As for media players kubuntu has amarok 1.4.10 installed by default which is exponentially greater than the sum of the windows audio players.

Different Computer Architectures
64 bit systems are much better supported, I can find drivers for my hardware in 64 bit unlike in vista where I could not. As mentioned before kubuntu just finds and installs them with no trouble at all. Browser plugins, the biggest problem, are common to both windows and linux but at least I have 64 bit flash in kubuntu.

Different Computer Filesystems
There are more filesystems which are better because they can be varied. For handing all the small files in /var reiserFS is the system of choice, for general use ext3 and maybe ext4 soon if it is stable enough. As it is journaled it keeps a better eye on files so defragging isn't necessary.

jimi_hendrix

February 26th, 2009, 06:43 PM

ubuntu wins in all but amount of availible software...but most can be replaced except for certain key programs and proprietary games

Keyper7

February 26th, 2009, 09:19 PM

I recommend an absolutely neutral approach. The best way to be taken seriously is to avoid looking like you're advertising for something. Repeat the sentences "you mileage may vary" and "it depends on each person" like freaking MANTRAS. Treat them as equals and make very clear that the most important is to respect the personal opinions of each one.

Some important observations:

Installation of Software Applications
Package management systems are one of the greatest examples of why open source can be good from a technical and practical point of view. Forget about idealism, nobody cares about that. (it is important, but this is an advanced topic only for interested listeners)

Drivers
Make a point clear: it's not Linux who should support hardware X, it's the hardware X vendor who should support Linux.

Gaming
Atari is one of the companies with faith on Linux and all versions of Unreal Tournament had Linux versions. UT3 is an exception, but that's due to licensing problems.

Security
No system is immune to user stupidity. Anyone who says "with Linux you don't have to worry about viruses" is a fanboy and a fool. If an user is stupid enough to open NataliePortmanNaked.exe as an administrator, he's stupid enough to type "sudo sh NataliePortmanNaked.sh".

Word Processing
Open office is not supposed to be a Word clone. Anyone who starts using it should expect different tools and different ways of doing things.

Virtualboxbuntu

February 26th, 2009, 11:14 PM

Let's assume that somehow the average user is not "used" to either OS and so will not be confused because Windows and Ubuntu are very different. I'll try to be unbiased but I can't guarantee it.

Desktop Features
On a default Windows setup, you have one panel at the bottom with the task switcher, the Show Desktop button, the start button and the notification area. The Start Menu organizes programs according to who made them, creating a very long list.

On a default Ubuntu setup, you have two panels, one at the top, and one at the bottom. On the top one you find Applications, which sorts programs by what they do, which is better than Windows; Places, which lets you go to your home folder, your computer, or any device connected to the computer; System, which lets you change your preferences and perform administrative tasks like changing the login theme or adding users. You also find the notification area.

On the bottom panel, we have an icon to access the Trash (Recycle Bin on Windows), the task switcher, and Show Desktop.

Ubuntu's (actually GNOME's) concept of the desktop is more functional that beautiful. Applications, Places, and System is a bit more obvious than a Windows logo, if you are not used to either OS.

I think the default Windows Vista Aero theme looks better than Human (Ubuntu), but Ubuntu can be customized with thousands of different themes.

If you're willing to consider KDE instead of GNOME (I prefer Linux Mint 6's implementation of it more than Kubuntu's) then that's a different story:

We have one panel along the bottom. We have the LM icon at the left (like the Start Menu). This menu has tabs along the bottom: Favorites, Applications, Computer, Recently Used, and Leave. I'm not too sure how to compare this to Start Menu. Applications is equivalent to All Programs; Favorites to Pinned to Start Menu; Computer to My Computer; Recently Used to programs that appear at first in the start menu; Leave to the icons at the bottom right.

They both seem to be surprisingly equal.

The menu is followed by a folder icon. Clicking this icon opens a menu that lets you browse through your Home Folder, more than you can say for Windows. This is followed by the task switcher, then the notification area, then Plugged in Media, then the clock, then trash.

You can also add plasmoids to the desktop or the panel, resize the panel, add more panels, etc. which is more than you can do with Windows.

Overall Linux Mint 6 KDE is just as beautiful and a bit more functional than Vista. Ubuntu is a bit uglier.

Winner: Linux Mint 6 KDE beats Windows Vista beats Ubuntu

Installation of Software

On Windows, you go to the website of the software you want, you download the exe, and open it.

On Ubuntu, you go to Synaptic or Add/Remove Programs and put a check next to the software you want.

Winner: Ubuntu

Drivers

In Windows, drivers are often installed by default if they come with your computer. If they are not, or you install Windows yourself, you can spend a lot of time finding them.

In Ubuntu, lots of drivers are installed by default. If one is missing, you go to Drivers Manager and install the drivers.

Winner: Ubuntu

Gaming

No need to explain.

Winner: Windows

Security

In Windows Vista, we have UAC. That's the box that pops up all the time. We also have NTFS file system permissions. We also need antivirus software.

In Windows XP, we basically have nothing at all except a need for antivirus software.

In Ubuntu, we have sudo. We have POSIX file system permissions. We don't get viruses (unless you run a script as root, which you shouldn't unless you trust it).

Ubuntu is just safer by design.

Winner: Ubuntu

Word Processing

In Windows, we often use Microsoft Word 2007. I never really understood the interface. We could also use OpenOffice, but most people choose Microsoft Word.

In Ubuntu, we have OpenOffice by default. The newest version can read and save Word 2007 files. It has a better interface, in my opinion. There's really no need for Microsoft Word 2007. We can also use KOffice or GNOMEOffice or thisoffice or thatoffice.

Winner: Ubuntu

Media

In Windows, by default you find a)Windows Media Player b)Windows Photo Gallery c)Windows Movie Maker.

In Ubuntu, the default programs are a)Rythmbox b)F-Spot c)Kino (but KDEnLive has many more features so I recommend it instead).

I'm not too experienced with any of these programs, but I consider Rythmbox to be superior, and KDEnLive to be superior. I don't know about the photo managers (fspot and photo gallery). I also think that Movie Maker is superior to Kino.

For website publishing, they're more or less equal, as they both come with a basic text editor and no FTP client, but Ubuntu's text editor has syntax highlighting. Ubuntu wins website publishing (when using default programs).

Overall: Tie

Different Computer Architectures

Ubuntu most certainly wins.

Different File Systems

Ubuntu can read ext2/3, FAT (all versions), NTFS, HFS+ (Mac) and so it wins. It can read lots of others, too.

Windows: NTFS, Fat (all versions).

File System Hierarchy

You didn't request this but I thought I'd include it anyway.

Software being in /usr/share as opposed to C:\Program Files is a bit confusing at first. The concept of C:\ D:\ E:\ for different partitions is also interesting.

But in Ubuntu, you can have one partition for your documents, another for your software, another for everything else, which cannot be done in Windows.

I think Windows is better for the average user in this aspect.

Overall Winner

Windows is indispensable if you play lots of games.

Otherwise, I think Ubuntu is better because it includes free (and often better) programs for your everyday tasks.

Naturally, if you're used to one OS, you'll be biased against the other.

***

I am aware of the many Linux multimedia editing software, but they are not sufficiently mature to be used seamlessly with windows Movie maker.

Hmm... I've never heard of two different video editors that can be used seamlessly with each other...

Also, I think KDEnLive is the best video editor, it has a small learning curve, and has a good interface, and lots of features.

AndrewKeith80

February 27th, 2009, 01:28 AM

I can relate my home user experience. I have many computers at home which use windows XP. I have some which use linux and this is what has happened.

1) I have found ubuntu to be non user friendly for people which are not techies. The user interface is poor and is bloated with features that just confuse. Non technical home users really dont understand console commands, file permissions and many other concepts. Windows is really powerful at conveying the idea that the user should not be mucking around with the operating system guts.

2) I have personally tried to convinced 2 relatives to use ubuntu. After setting up ubuntu for them, both complained that the reliance on obscure commands and the non-availability of many software packages made it a chore to use. Both now use windows.

3) Windows, even in its most basic form, still has a better user interface. Thats the most important fact for home-users which are non-techie's. Of course there are a few people which will argue about some superior linux feature or the stability of windows sucks, but realisticly , the user interface is what the user see's. It doesnt matter if linux is realiable, the users wont use it if they cant get the most out of the user interface.

4) Many features work well in linux, but are broken in the user interface. Many linux users are will be quick to point out how to configure in the console. However, in the 21st centure, we should not be configuring operating systems for home users in consoles. I have found these features incredibly useful, but broken on ubuntu.
a) Configuring networks without ifconfig (intermitten GUI bugs)
b) Surveying, installing and configuring device drivers (no central usable GUI)
c) Obscure file permission system which makes home users resort to just ditching permissions and login as root all the time.
d) Poor support for standardized GUI. Hardy heron and intrepid ibex have different GUI's for configuring the network. No explanation is given why this is so, but its frustrating to users.

AndrewKeith80

February 27th, 2009, 01:34 AM

I like ubuntu , its a good operating system.

but overall , to answer your question about which is better for home use, Windows wins because of 1 major fact which cripples ubuntu.

Windows user interface works and is similar across versions. I cant say the same for ubuntu. Ubuntu user interface is klunky and buggy at best.

If you ask this question about servers , or some other usage, then it can be argued that linux beats windows. I do agree linux is more reliable and has many features which blows windows away, but home users do judge books by its covers, and ubuntu linux has a pretty bad cover.

swoll1980

February 27th, 2009, 01:43 AM

I can relate my home user experience. I have many computers at home which use windows XP. I have some which use linux and this is what has happened.

2) I have personally tried to convinced 2 relatives to use ubuntu. After setting up ubuntu for them, both complained that the reliance on obscure commands and the non-availability of many software packages made it a chore to use. Both now use windows.

Wow! Really? You must not have done a good job. When I install Linux for someone they don't have to touch the cli. I installed Linux for some of the most computer illiterate people that ever walked the planet, w/o any problems. If you installed it, and set everything up for them, why on earth would they need to use the cli? Why would you even mention the cli to them in the first place. My 6 year old son has had Ubuntu on his computer, for a year w/o out a problem. My 60 year old redneck father knows nothing about computers, and has never had a problem with his install either.

AndrewKeith80

February 27th, 2009, 02:00 AM

Wow! Really? You must not have done a good job. When I install Linux for someone they don't have to touch the cli.

Personal attacks dont change the fact that the ubuntu user interface is really broken. Ubuntu users have regularly have to resort to cryptic commands to resolve issues.

Here is how it broke really quickly .

1) My sister in law right clicked the network monitor and unchecked the network enable after using the internet connection. To her horror, the network monitor icon disappear forever. She had to run some cryptic commands and log off to get the network monitor back (actually , i had to drive over to her house and type the cryptic commands).

2) She plugged in a web cam to use ekiga softphone. The web cam didnt appear in the list of web cam's. In fact, nothing happened when she plugged in her web cam. Even windows will show an icon for usb device failure in the GUI, but ubuntu just silently sits there. I had to type dmesg to get more information.

3) She used synaptic to try to download flash 10. She couldnt find it. So i tried to advise her how to do an apt-get update. Even spelling out apt-get update over a phone is difficult enough. Finally, she went to adobe website instead of synaptic, downloaded flash, double click the deb file, ran install, and still , no flash. I had to solve it for her by removing flash, nonfreeflash and other garbage before reinstalling. All this was done in the CLI.

There were numerous other problems as well. I dont think its possible to use ubuntu without touching the CLI to solve obscure problems.

howlingmadhowie

February 27th, 2009, 04:05 AM

I am currently compiling a report on whether Ubuntu or Vista is more suitable for home use.

The sections I will be writing about will be:

Desktop Features
Installation of Software Applications
Drivers
Gaming
Security
Word Processing
Media
Different Computer Architectures
Different Computer Filesystems

another thing i'd like to say is that you are really asking the wrong questions. where is the discussion on software freedom? free culture? escaping vendor lock-in? etc.

howlingmadhowie

February 27th, 2009, 04:10 AM

Personal attacks dont change the fact that the ubuntu user interface is really broken. Ubuntu users have regularly have to resort to cryptic commands to resolve issues.

Here is how it broke really quickly .

1) My sister in law right clicked the network monitor and unchecked the network enable after using the internet connection. To her horror, the network monitor icon disappear forever. She had to run some cryptic commands and log off to get the network monitor back (actually , i had to drive over to her house and type the cryptic commands).

i don't think this should happen. there is a gui for adding the network monitor which you can reach by right-clicking the bar

2) She plugged in a web cam to use ekiga softphone. The web cam didnt appear in the list of web cam's. In fact, nothing happened when she plugged in her web cam. Even windows will show an icon for usb device failure in the GUI, but ubuntu just silently sits there. I had to type dmesg to get more information.

so basically it didn't do what windows would have done and that's a problem.

3) She used synaptic to try to download flash 10. She couldnt find it. So i tried to advise her how to do an apt-get update. Even spelling out apt-get update over a phone is difficult enough. Finally, she went to adobe website instead of synaptic, downloaded flash, double click the deb file, ran install, and still , no flash. I had to solve it for her by removing flash, nonfreeflash and other garbage before reinstalling. All this was done in the CLI.

none of that needed to be done in a shell. you could have done it using the update manager and nautilus.

There were numerous other problems as well. I dont think its possible to use ubuntu without touching the CLI to solve obscure problems.

i don't see any here.

the general problem seems to be rushing in to do stuff without asking if it's a good idea. if a new user uses the command line, they should ask themselves what has gone wrong. using the command line for the things you mentioned above is not necessary.

beniwtv

February 27th, 2009, 04:37 AM

Word Processing
Windows runs MS Word flawlessly, MS Word is the industry standard.

Please... Word documents are NOT an "industry standard". For something to become an industry standard, it has to be openly documented so everyone can implement it (that's why it's called "standard"). Proprietary, undocumented and closed inventions are never industry standards. And yes, that does include MP3.

That doesn't mean it's not the most used, though.

Cheers,

Keyper7

February 27th, 2009, 08:59 AM

1) My sister in law right clicked the network monitor and unchecked the network enable after using the internet connection. To her horror, the network monitor icon disappear forever. She had to run some cryptic commands and log off to get the network monitor back (actually , i had to drive over to her house and type the cryptic commands).

Network Manager probably crashed. This is not supposed to happen and it was probably caused by a bug. When unexpected things happen in Windows due to bugs, I too have to resort to non-standard the procedures the average user does not understand.

2) She plugged in a web cam to use ekiga softphone. The web cam didnt appear in the list of web cam's. In fact, nothing happened when she plugged in her web cam. Even windows will show an icon for usb device failure in the GUI, but ubuntu just silently sits there. I had to type dmesg to get more information.

Or maybe you could... I don't know... test Ekiga? When my webcam is plugged, Ekiga sees it. When it's not plugged, Ekige does not see it. Not exactly rocket science and no cli involved.

3) She used synaptic to try to download flash 10. She couldnt find it. So i tried to advise her how to do an apt-get update. Even spelling out apt-get update over a phone is difficult enough.

Or maybe you could tell her... I don't know... to click the refresh button in Synaptic which does exactly what an apt-get update does? It's one single click, geez...

Finally, she went to adobe website instead of synaptic, downloaded flash, double click the deb file, ran install, and still , no flash. I had to solve it for her by removing flash, nonfreeflash and other garbage before reinstalling. All this was done in the CLI.

Because you wanted to.

There were numerous other problems as well. I dont think its possible to use ubuntu without touching the CLI to solve obscure problems.

So for you have not mentioned one single problem on which the CLI was necessary, other than something it was probably a bug. (and you didn't post details, it's possible that not even this unexpected problem demanded text commands)

jonathonblake

February 27th, 2009, 03:39 PM

Drivers
Windows generally has the advantage here, anything that you pick up from a department store will, almost definitely, work. There are exceptions, and sometimes you'll have to look around to find a driver, but usually everything will work a few minutes out of the box. Linux, on the other hand, is very hit or miss, and even when you have a hit, it usually takes a good bit of work on your part to get the hardware working to it's full capacity.

Of the hardware devices I've acquired in the last year, the only one that didn't work with Linux was a scanner. (The drivers for that scanner are for Win2K.)

For optimum performance with Linux, the external drives should have been reformatted.(Based on the results of the one I did reformat, it appears that that is also required for optimum performance for Windows.)

The USB Wifi worked better in Linux, than in Windows, even after installing the Windows driver. (Better is defined as "showed more networks, and their status.") I'll grant that installing it as a second WiFi device might have affected its performance on the Linux box.

Graphics card: This didn't work that well with Linux. OTOH, inasmuch as the hardware manufacturer has both refused to either release the specs, or provide a Linux driver, the failure is understandable. Furthermore, if one doesn't have WinXP, or WinVista, the performance on Windows is on a par with, or worse than that of Linux.

I don't know why, but it is easier to grab images from my digital camera, by hooking it up thru the USB cord, than taking out the card, and putting it in my card reader. On the windows box, the opposite is true. And this is after installing a device driver for the windows box to access the digital camera.

The wireless keyboard and mouse work better on Linux than Windows. (Not my opinion, but that of the person who gave them to me. Windows performance was, shall we say, far less than stunning.)

Word Processing
Windows runs MS Word flawlessly, MS Word is the industry standard.

a) WordPerfect is the industry standard, if that industry is the legal profession. ODF is the industry standard, if that industry is "having to deal with the government of Singapore." Ditto for the European Economic Union.

b) To say that MSO runs flawlessly on Windows is somewhat misleading. A document created on any specific Windows machine will not necessarilly display the same way, or be printed out the same way, when opened/printed on a different Windows machine. It doesn't matter if one is using the same version, and edition of both Windows and MSO.

Media
They're both more or less equal. Windows does have better apps for managing media though...
However, you simply wont be able to edit media on Linux. Windows, no problem.

Inasmuch as I can create and edit graphic files, audio files, and video files on my Linux box, I don't understand the claim "you simply won't be able to edit media on Linux" means?

If your reference was to creating scent files, that limitation is because the manufacturer of that hardware does not provide Linux drivers. Furthermore, the most recent drivers are for Win2K.

Furthermore, it is easier for me to burn my original music to a CD, using Linux, than using Windows.

Source? A Google search only brings up the same quote, all on FOSS community forums.

The news story can be found at http://news.my.msn.com/sci-tech/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1910659, http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090101/technology/china_copyright_piracy_microsoft, or at http://www.space.tv/reports/Tough_sentences_in_China_over_huge_piracy_ring_Mic rosoft_says_999.html.

Attribution for the "The first clue..." statement is from a comment on Groklaw. (I can't reach Groklaw now, otherwise I'd dig up who made that observation.)

jonathon

Alienware user

February 28th, 2009, 03:40 AM

already posted my view here http://thevistaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=51348

im not a very big ubuntu fan, and i would put vista and ubuntu roughly on a very close tie, but mandriva i think edges both of them out for home users (kde edition of course, and kubuntu has too many problems

Visual Appeal: Diffidently Mandriva (and when 2009 Spring comes around in April 29 this is going to be bigger win since kde 4.2 and la ora will be integrated into kde4 a little better) but just default theme, mandriva turns out a lot more appealing (besides the gnome edition looks like (beep)) and go into the changing of desktop u can change ur window border soo easily, la ora to orange, different shades of blue, you can change to oxygen, redmond, with kde control panel (which isn't much different then Vista's appearance panel) you can change your panel to different types of transparency or others (aya, oxygen, heron, elegance and etc, and kde 4.2 brings even more)

Winner:KDE4 + La Ora=Mandriva

drivers:Mandriva for sure, average users don't know what a driver is, mandriva installs drivers for you on install (even ur nvidia driver and flash player) and with wireless drivers, windows you got to go hunt down the driver, (i don't have wireless with my system) but when i was setting up the local nun's laptop with mandriva (she had xp and it was SLOW as hell) out of the box wireless was working (forget which one she was using, it was netgear branded though, and computer was nec versa or w/e its called) i mean if you can have the live cd pick everything up, detect what you need, tell you that it will remove what isn't needed, and then it will install, much easier and screw going and hunting and rebooting a thousand times.

driver winner:Mandriva

Gaming: Although the more cusual games like Sim City 4 and World Of Warcraft/GW work perfectly fine, cedega/wine/crossover is mostly a hit and miss, playing anything outside the box will most likely be a no, hardcore gaming is not linux ground, as much as the wine team tries, you will need windows for 90% of the games.As far as the native games, openGL 3 and DX10 are pretty much toe to toe, although opengl is cross-platform since if you make a game for mac lets say it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to port to linux and opensolaris (or at least not so much as a hassle as windows to anything else)

Winner:Windows Vista hands down

Security:

UAC is annoying as hell, most users just click accept to anything because people are soo used to click accept because it prompts about everything, when something real serious achually comes up, its clicked accepted, its more so like the theory of the boy who cried wolf too many times, and then the worm gets through and UAC is worthless.Linux security is a little more practical, it will ask for password with REAL admistrative tasks, like control center (which effects sytem settings) and installing new software (so if ur friends are over they can't screw around with anything, and plus that helps when a virus comes in tries to install you will have to type your password, and people think twice more when they have to type a password over clicking a yellow button that darkens their whole screen, and UAC is usually late in popping.Linux isn't annoying where when you start WoW or w/e and won't say connection failed and you will be wondering why until you see your game existed to see a message "this unidentified program is trying to access the internet, cancel or allow" and that can be super annoying

as far as real security issues, linux wins no doubt, just looking at the kernel linux is more secure, then with the other factors with opensource community that gets things done faster, windows can't hold water in this category.plus with the fact that windows is on 88% of computers makes it a major attraction.Of course anyone can get a virus if they are stupid to be going into the wrong places on the internet (opening suspecious emails or downloading "free" music and etc"

winner:Linux hands down

Word processing:This is personal preference, some like OO, abi word, koffice or MS office, they all can run on pretty much both (even MS2007 works pretty well in crossover and wine)

winner:-

Media:Well out of the box they both read about the same only linux can read the opensource ones like .ogg out of the box.Itunes could make a major differnce because there is no itunes for linux, and apple used to be very strict with drm, but now that they have loosen this isn't much of a issue now because all new music on itunes is m4a (drm free) or upgradeable for 30 cents for already owned songs, all you have to do in mandriva is get plf (packages mandriva didn't include for legal reasons) http://easyurpmi.zarb.org/ install, select faac,faad, and gstreamer very bad packages and then m4a should work in amarok.Although itunes isn't ported, who like itunes anyways outside of the music store?Its a pain in the rear, it takes forever to start, its a ram hog and its slow, songbird and amarok and even wm11 make itunes look like a fat cow that needs to go on a diet.Mandriva doesn't include the m4a codecs out of the box, but if they did apple would be going after them in court.I think linux mint includes crap anyways, but i wouldn't be surprised if their project gets closed.

winner: tie

filesystem:NTFS sucks period, it erodes over time, when you first install windows its fast, but over time after installing things NTFS gets a little crappy and isn't very good with fragmentation so you have to defrag all the time.EX3 and EX4 don't degrade

Winner:Linux

software management:Some linux make this a hassle, but mandriva makes it a breeze.rpmdrake is easy to use, and urmpi is FAST and rarely screws up (*cough* fedora "lets take up all the time in world to install just simple updates and packages, and then stop and say "waiting on other tasks") mandy usually keeps packages up to date, it is much easier to type what you are looking for then searching the net for the file or program, although windows has much more commercial software, linux is the stronghold in free software and is much easier to get.With updating system urmpi makes it easy and painless, no reboot required (even after updating like 30 things), windows vista on the other hand will take a forever just to install 9 files, and then it will ask for a reboot, then there is "2nd and 3rd stage" which is also pretty annoying and waste time.Ubuntu asks for reboot but thats why im not putting ubuntu up, because i personally feel ubuntu is more of a hobby os, and a lot of linux seems so, but mandriva seems to be for prime time for home users (ubuntu is not that great in servers either, they are beat by red hat)

winner:Mandriva

Score:Mandriva 5 Windows:1 (ties are not added to score)

overall winner: Mandriva

sorry i never really liked ubuntu, there was nothing wrong with it and everything worked fine and had no problems, i just feel mandriva has its own magical touch, and im not really big on gnome and i don't like how kubuntu works (kinda hard to believe i used to think ubuntu=linux until it didn't work on my hardware(back in april 2008 or so with 7.1) and then i browsed through linux.com and found mandriva, installed 2008 Spring and to this date im still on mandriva, i switched to fedora and crap for a couple of days but always come back to mandy because the other distros give me the "hobby" feeling when mandy gives me the full thing, the "just works" that apple says about mac.

jocheem67

February 28th, 2009, 05:05 AM

ikisham

February 28th, 2009, 09:19 AM

If you look from the ethics side one just can't defend Vista. Microsoft did a great job at first but nowadays it's undefendable. It depends on disinformation only to survive and if we consider that many, many people are still iliterate in computing we can see how evil that is. It DOES hinder education and personal growth (I live in Brazil and know what I'm saying).
That said, I can't talk about Vista since I used it little and before I came to know ubuntu. But from my personal experience ubuntu does not need any antivirus or firewall and generally speaking one can be pretty well unconcerned with security. Also my Hardy Heron (8.04) installation runs with 177 MB RAM idle, with Firefox running one may need 256 MB to be confortable and not much more than this for the system to be able to work well in most situations. Another thing to point out is the ability of many Linux distros to work as live-cds usually well with most of the hardware around (and that, of course, tends to improve).

Alienware user

February 28th, 2009, 11:30 AM

Personal experiences are just personal, I tried mandriva a year ago and rushed back to ubuntu...not kubuntu by the way, that one isn't on par I feel.

Actually I think that you maybe should narrow down your investigation to everyday use for the computer illiterate..( mailing, word-processing, internet, and maybe watching a video and listening to music.....organising a photo-collection is imho on the edge )
I'm a hobbyist, mainly occupied with music-production, but I wouldn't call it "everyday use"

Everyone who knows computers , will be too biased, is my humble opinion.

When ubuntu is set up by someone who knows what he/she is doing, I would say that ubuntu is better because of safety aspects....pa and ma and granny can use it for days to come.

The same counts for vista, minus the safety...

i installed mandriva on one of the local nun's old laptop (nec versa something but only 256mb of ram) and her wireless worked out of the box and all other drivers it was painless for me, and i showed her just a few things it been 3 weeks so far and she is saying her computer is better then when she first got it (and to prove she doesn't know much about computers she didn't know why she youtube didn't work, but she didn't have flash installed, mandy installs flash for you, so she thinks mandriva "fixed" her youtube:popcorn:) i put LXDE edition because her computer is really slow and when it had XP it was a nightmare, and kde4 would drown the computer, but she knows how to get her office,skype and web browser open (had to tell her firefox is Internet Explorer) perfectly fine then i guess this was a win for linux ease of use.

jocheem67

February 28th, 2009, 11:54 AM

Yeah, well...this thread isn't about mandriva ---- ubuntu....
It's about ubuntu versus vista...;)

Alienware user

February 28th, 2009, 12:02 PM

then ill take vista over ubuntu

Chame_Wizard

February 28th, 2009, 05:11 PM

we have good advices here :guitar:

MetalFanLiam

February 28th, 2009, 07:56 PM

Yes I agree, ubuntuforums is a very friendly, and possibly my favourite place to be whilst online.

I really really appreciate all this feedback, its really going to help me out. Like ive said on the vista forums, ive deliberately supplied you with limited information of what I you to feed back on. An example would be "Gaming", as i have left it up to you to decide what type of gaming to provide feed back for, whether it be a java/flash game, or a full of directx/opengl game.

Thanks for the replies, each persons view shall be included in my report somewhat. I have till easter to compile a report, with evidence of research.

PS, this assessment is for an IT Diploma.

MFL

HuaiDan

February 28th, 2009, 08:16 PM

Vista and Ubuntu both have a plethora of bugs, but when I encounter a bug in windows I become enraged. Nothing works perfectly 100% of the time, but I think something as costly as Vista should be virtually bug free for most people. When I encounter a bug in Ubuntu, I regard it as an opportunity to learn more about how Linux operates. I like its experimental nature.
Another reason is the software. An (ostensibly) superior for-sale software package does no one any good if it's sitting on a store shelf with a price tag on it, waiting for the customer to scrape together enough cash to buy it , risk putting their credit card info online, or make a trip to the store, or risk copyright infringement, as you would in windows. I can have comparable packages installed and running in minutes without so much as a reboot in most cases, so now I have some really really cool software in Ubuntu that I never would have gotten in windows, stuff I never would have "bumped into" using windows.
Kind of like how many people discover new music by pirating MP3's. But this isn't pirating.

I switched from Windows to Ubuntu about 2 months ago, and I'm much, much happier with my computing experience. Truly, an OS for human beings.

linuxisevolution

February 28th, 2009, 08:30 PM

I am currently compiling a report on whether Ubuntu or Vista is more suitable for home use.

I would like some feedback form the Ubuntu community, on their thoughts and views are on this matter. I need this feedback for primary research for my report. This is an assessed peice of work.

I will be placing some quotes from your feedback onto my report, and i will send a portion of this report to the people who submit feedback. Thanks for ny feedback anyone puts forward.

The sections I will be writing about will be:

Desktop Features
Installation of Software Applications
Drivers
Gaming
Security
Word Processing
Media
Different Computer Architectures
Different Computer Filesystems

You may judge what "Home use" may mean, such as Gaming, Word Processing, or even advanced home use, such as software developing, 64bit computing, or even home servers, so obviously Linux will be better for some aspects for home use. Again,
thsnks for any feed back.

This will be a huge advantage for me having the Ubuntu community giving feedback.

Thanks,
MFL

Desktop Features -Ubuntu wins.

Ubuntu has more customization in the gui, and much more in the cli.

Installation of Software Applications -Ubuntu wins.

My eight year old sister installs her own games on Ubuntu without any help anymore. Enough said.

Drivers -Tie.

Sometimes hard ware does not work with Linux but that is improving, like always. But, a lot of hard ware for Linux does not require the installation of drivers. For instance on a windows install on my pc it takes hours to track down all the drivers. In Ubuntu, I just have to install the Nvidia driver, and I'm done.

Gaming - Windows wins.

Because of market share, for obvious reasons.

Security -Ubuntu/Linux always will win here!

Word Processing -TIE

I hate the new "Word" but some people like it. I like Ooo.

Media -Ubuntu. after installing codecs.

Ubuntu has more media players.

Different Computer Architectures -Ubuntu wins.

Linux runs on your Ipod, phone, laptop, desktop, Flash drive, and more. Linux runs on the most platforms than any operating system. Windows works on, um, two?

Different Computer Filesystems -Ubuntu wins.

Ubuntu can be installed on ext3, ext4, ext2,jfs, xfs,ntfs,reiserfs, and more. Anything is better than ntfs.