Microsoft's patent war over Linux has begun

[Grant A.]

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212

3 patents are related to TomTom's implementation of the Linux kernel. Yikes! I'm glad I left Linux when I did.

[Skripka]

Good Grief, Grant. READ.


Asked if this TomTom case is the start of a broader legal campaign over those alleged violations, Gutierrez said no.


If I want alarmist blog-quality "news" I'll turn on CNN or Fox.

[C!oud]

Yikes! I'm glad I left Linux when I did.

:roll:

[kidux]

Grant, dude, seriously, why are you here?

[RichardLinx]

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212

3 patents are related to TomTom's implementation of the Linux kernel. Yikes! I'm glad I left Linux when I did.

And how many patent infringements have Microsoft been sued for?

[Telekinesis]

Grant, dude, seriously, why are you here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

[lykwydchykyn]

Help guys help! They're here already! The MS lawyers are here, breaking down the door! Ahh teh noes, they are taking my compies! And the tivo too! If only I had quit Linuz in time!!!!!!

[RichardLinx]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/internet_troll
+1

[steveneddy]

Maybe the only way that Microsoft will be able to make a living in the future is to become a patent troll, suing every TD&H for supposed "innovations"

Hey Ballmer, I'm using a mouse with my Linux computer. Wanna sue me?

[Kopachris]

Ahh! Darn you! I wanted to post this thread! :mad: :)
Microsoft's tactics really sicken me. I would have loved nothing more (exaggeration, but not hyperbole) than for Microsoft to turn around and embrace open source. Maybe Stallman and Linus can still beat Ballmer's ninjas... Microsoft has officially put the final nail in their own coffin. This. Is. War.

First off, if Microsoft wins the patent war, that will mean the total collapse of our already-suffering economy. So many people use so many billions of dollars worth of OSS, that if they're forced to pay M$, people will lose their jobs, businesses will collapse, stocks will crash, and we'll be back to the dark ages.

Secondly, I don't think Microsoft will win the patent war. People love OSS, despite Microsoft's FUD attacks. Millions of people use Firefox, millions more use Linux. Linux is so widely used for businesses, people would never stand Microsoft winning. It doesn't matter how good of a legal team M$ has, someone (or more precisely, a bunch of someones) will step in to stop this outrage. Remember the 09 F9 key? Remember Digg finally saying they won't ban people for it anymore, no matter what the consequences? Think that, only a thousand times bigger. HP, TomTom, Novell, Linksys, and thousands of other businesses, large and small, rely on OSS.

[schauerlich]

grant, dude, seriously, why are you here?

+1

[hyperyoda]

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212

3 patents are related to TomTom's implementation of the Linux kernel. Yikes! I'm glad I left Linux when I did.

Nothing to worry about. Microsoft has no leg to stand on and will keep failin in this stupid lawsuits.

[inobe]

if ms reads this


your pie charts are wrong' you don't know what your up against

[AcidHawk]

Hey Ballmer, I'm using a mouse with my Linux computer. Wanna sue me?

I am a proud Microsoft user. Microsoft mouse that is. ;) It's that same one I have had for several years now. If any-one should be sued It should be me!!!

Oh... I also removed the Powered by windows sticker off my dell... (the actual reason is that one corner started to lift and irritated my wrist).. I put on an "Ubuntu - Linux for human beings" sticker on the cover.. ;)

Am I gonna go to jail.... Ridiculous...

[HuaiDan]

I don't call them trolls, I call them agents. Thei job is to spread misinformation, counterintelligence, and propaganda, and stir up discontent. Seems too deliberate an effort to be random trolling. If he she has accomplished nothing else, a few minutes of everyone's time was wasted.



Yeah that sounds tinfoil hat, but how would I know otherwise? The motives of some people are a complete mystery.

Excuse me while I go to the MS forums and spread rumors about ...
...
...
...
...
dang it, it's hard to think of as rumor about MS that isn't true!

[Chame_Wizard]

M$ begins to become deperate to destroy Linux,so they sue us.

[SuperSonic4]

I don't call them trolls, I call them agents. Thei job is to spread misinformation, counterintelligence, and propaganda, and stir up discontent. Seems too deliberate an effort to be random trolling. If he she has accomplished nothing else, a few minutes of everyone's time was wasted.



Yeah that sounds tinfoil hat, but how would I know otherwise? The motives of some people are a complete mystery.

Excuse me while I go to the MS forums and spread rumors about ...
...
...
...
...
dang it, it's hard to think of as rumor about MS that isn't true!

You could always jump the gun and call the bundling of IE with Windows illegal, it's almost certain the EU will reach the same conclusion :p

[gn2]

Wonder if MS will sue the US military for alleged patent infringement in their Linux based softwares...?

[Leo Dragonheart]

I am a proud Microsoft user. Microsoft mouse that is. ;) It's that same one I have had for several years now. If any-one should be sued It should be me!!!

Oh... I also removed the Powered by windows sticker off my dell... (the actual reason is that one corner started to lift and irritated my wrist).. I put on an "Ubuntu - Linux for human beings" sticker on the cover.. ;)

Am I gonna go to jail.... Ridiculous...

Dude I wish you would not have said that or I would not have read that! I looked down and saw I was using a mouse that said Microsoft on it and had to unplug it and plug in my old IBM mouse till I can get to the store...

[RichardLinx]

Dude I wish you would not have said that or I would not have read that! I looked down and saw I was using a mouse that said Microsoft on it and had to unplug it and plug in my old IBM mouse till I can get to the store...

Just stick an Ubuntu sticker over the Microsoft logo, problem solved.

[Leo Dragonheart]

Just stick an Ubuntu sticker over the Microsoft logo, problem solved.


ROFLMAO.....:lolflag:

[Sealbhach]

So this could be the start of something really big, it's the first time Microsoft have asserted their patent claims over Linux in a lawsuit.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_tomtom_gps_patent_dispute_ip_satnav_arew enearlythereyet

I kind of hope Microsoft go for the full-on legal assault against Linux alleged patent infringements. Better to have it all resolved rather than veiled threats and insinuations. Tom-Tom are challenging it so that's good. :popcorn:


.

[kleeman]

If this is an attack on Linux I wonder about the timing. There is an ongoing antitrust case in Europe against M$ and in addition the Democrats are in control of the DOJ again in the States. The last antitrust case against M$ ended when Bush came to power.

M$ better be careful.......

[Icehuck]

I might side with Microsoft on this one. TomTom did steal GPL code in the past and claim it as their own.

[Skripka]

If this is an attack on Linux I wonder about the timing. There is an ongoing antitrust case in Europe against M$ and in addition the Democrats are in control of the DOJ again in the States. The last antitrust case against M$ ended when Bush came to power.

M$ better be careful.......

It isn't.

If folks would actually read articles and NOT alarmist blogs, Microsoft CLEARLY states this is not an opening move in a campaign against FOSS. The patents involved are largely due to the usage of FAT32.

This is the 2nd active thread on this BTW.

[Johnsie]

If someone used my patents without my permission I'd sue them too.

[Sealbhach]

It isn't.

If folks would actually read articles and NOT alarmist blogs, Microsoft CLEARLY states this is not an opening move in a campaign against FOSS. The patents involved are largely due to the usage of FAT32.


Oh yeah, coz Microsoft are nice like that.

It is the "TomTom implementation of the Linux kernel that infringes these claims," Gutierrez said. "There are many flavors of Linux (and) many implementations of the Linux kernel. Cases such as these are very fact-specific."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10172507-56.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

It's an attack on Linux.


.

[issih]

Have to disagree, its an attack on a specific kernel compiled by tom tom that will no doubt include code that is not generic to other kernels. Nothing I've read here makes it look like they are about to start a holy war. Its a specific case where they believe specific identified patents have been infringed by a small time player with no IP portfolio to fight back with.

No microsoft lawyer is going to rule out ever pursuing linux's supposed violations as it would reduce microsoft's leverage both in terms of publicity and legally. Saying that its not part of a wider attack is the absolute most you could ever exect to hear from the lips of such a person, weasley though it may be.

Total non story in my opinion being inflated by journalists eager to write something inflamatory.

[Skripka]

Oh yeah, coz Microsoft are nice like that.



http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10172507-56.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

It's an attack on Linux.


.

Pffffffffft. You have no actual evidence to support your claims, apart from paranoia.

BTW-YES. This IS over FAT32 implementation, which does indirectly involve Linux...but that is is. They aren't going after Linux. Get over it. This is what actual (informed and researched) journalism looks like:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device.ars

People need to stop crying wolf over this already. There's a world-wide shortage of tin-foil due to this already.

[newbie2]

I might side with Microsoft on this one. TomTom did steal GPL code in the past and claim it as their own.
prove with links please? :roll:

[Sealbhach]

They aren't going after Linux. Get over it.

I can hope, can't I?

If Microsoft attempts to broadly enforce this patent against Linux users and vendors, the Open Invention Network (OIN) might decide to invoke the so-called "nuclear option" and retaliate with its own massive arsenal of software patents.
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device.ars


.

[sydbat]

prove with links please? :roll:

http://gpl-violations.org/news/20041024-linux-tomtom.html

What is interesting is this case is US specific - again. Software patents (whether real or imagined) are unenforceable in other countries. If the company that makes Tom-Tom decide to remove themselves from the US market, Microsoft has no case.

[Skripka]

I can hope, can't I?


http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device.ars


.

You'll note the plethora of of conditionals. "If", "should", "might"-that is all the people pushing paranoia have on this.

There really is nothing here other than a for-profit company not paying MS the dues MS thinks they deserve. Why try to turn this into something it is not-unless you're a tech blogger working for a joke-outfit like CNet.

[newbie2]

http://gpl-violations.org/news/20041024-linux-tomtom.html

What is interesting is this case is US specific - again. Software patents (whether real or imagined) are unenforceable in other countries. If the company that makes Tom-Tom decide to remove themselves from the US market, Microsoft has no case.
ok, but that was a case between TT and GPL ... but this is TT between M$ ...
my guess is that micro$oft want to eliminate car-navigation companies , especially those who don't use their winCE software , because they (M$)'recently' have made deals with major automobile companies...:rolleyes:

[sydbat]

ok, but that was a case between TT and GPL ... but this is TT between M$ ...
my guess is that micro$oft want to eliminate car-navigation companies , especially those who don't use their winCE software , because they 'recently' have made deals with major automobile companies...:rolleyes:Yup.

[Icehuck]

prove with links please? :roll:

http://gpl-violations.org/news/20041024-linux-tomtom.html

There is your link.

[HammerOfDoubt]

They aren't going after Linux directly, but this case and the details of the patents show what a load of horsecrap software patents are.

[BuffaloX]

Pffffffffft. You have no actual evidence to support your claims, apart from paranoia.

BTW-YES. This IS over FAT32 implementation, which does indirectly involve Linux...but that is is. They aren't going after Linux. Get over it. This is what actual (informed and researched) journalism looks like:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device.ars

People need to stop crying wolf over this already. There's a world-wide shortage of tin-foil due to this already.

Paranoia? SCO, Balmer threatening Linux directly, MS-Novell.
If someone threatens to stab you, then draws a knife, is it paranoia to react?

Indirectly? This is a direct attack on a part of Linux, if this is dosfstools it's included and used by Ubuntu too. I think parts of FAT32 is also used for both cameras and USB sticks, so it may not be just old FAT32 harddrives.

They aren't going after Linux? How do you figure that? 3 of the claims are specifically regarding Linux.

(informed and researched) journalism Did you actually read that yourself? I did and thanks for the link btw. The article is mostly about how this in fact directly include Linux.

tin-foil This kind of remark is not helpful.

[Skripka]

Paranoia? SCO, Balmer threatening Linux directly, MS-Novell.
If someone threatens to stab you, then draws a knife, is it paranoia to react?

Indirectly? This is a direct attack on a part of Linux, if this is dosfstools it's included and used by Ubuntu too. I think parts of FAT32 is also used for both cameras and USB sticks, so it may not be just old FAT32 harddrives.

They aren't going after Linux? How do you figure that? 3 of the claims are specifically regarding Linux.

(informed and researched) journalism Did you actually read that yourself? I did and thanks for the link btw. The article is mostly about how this in fact directly include Linux.

tin-foil This kind of remark is not helpful.

Paranoia-if you see someone put their hand in their pocket, and think you are about to be shot. That is paranoia-and that is what is going on here.

You'll note from the Ars article I linked to-if you READ it (hint hint). That it is NOT clear if dosfstools is the source of the alleged infringement or not. The article in NO certain terms implies linux is up on the chopping block--the useage of "if" "should" "could" etc should make it clear that they are being FAR more cautious in their speach than any of the blogs posted thus far, in presuming Linux is in any kind of trouble.

There seems to be lots of reading and panicing going on over this topic, but not much critical thought. That goes for authors too.

[BuffaloX]

@ Skripka On paranoia threat: Balmer has repeatedly stated Linux violate MS IP, and that Linux users must compensate for using this.

Pulling the knife: Suing on 3 MS patents IS pulling the knife.

Microsoft isn't stupid when it comes to this sort of business, they have very much experience, the FAT32 claims has probably been chosen because this is where MS figure they have best chance of success.
TomTom were probably also very carefully chosen, to make it look like business as usual, relatively small player, not high profile in Linux community.

It reeks of a continuation of MS anti Linux FUD, even if they lose companies now know that they risk lawsuit from MS if they use Linux.

[bakedbeans4life]

I think Microsoft revealed their true intentions many years ago. If any individual or company stands in their way, they are to be taken out, BY ANY MEANS!!!

People keep giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt. Some make excuse after excuse on behalf of a corporation that continues to flout national and international law. Apologists have their own agenda in doing so, but others simply have not been around long enough to remember past Microsoft misdeeds.

I remember this parable from school:

"A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side. Suddenly, he saw a fox. He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.

The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me, and I'll drown."

The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we'll both drown."

The fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim. But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him. As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."

"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."

I'm sure you can work out for yourself what part Microsoft plays in these proceedings.

What happens with Tom-Tom may or may not be about Linux directly, but it doesn't need to be. Only the insinuation needs to be present for the damage to be done. If you use Linux, in any way, then prepare to pay for that privilege.

I know many Microsoft users will defend their favorite software provider until their dying breath. I never trusted them before, I sure as hell will not now.

The silver lining in this cloud may be just what a dumb idea software patents can be. The entire system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Tinfoil hats and asbestos underpants on standby.

[dannytatom]

ok, but that was a case between TT and GPL ... but this is TT between M$ ...
my guess is that micro$oft want to eliminate car-navigation companies , especially those who don't use their winCE software , because they (M$)'recently' have made deals with major automobile companies...:rolleyes:

I would take you a lot more seriously if you didn't replace the letter s with a dollar sign.

[lykwydchykyn]

I guess the question that would clear a lot of things up is whether tomtom is doing something in its kernel than you have in a vanilla kernel, specifically related to FAT support. I mean, if the tomtom kernel is just a vanilla kernel with a vanilla version of dosfstools, then how would the case be limited to them?

I guess we'll just have to watch and see how this progresses.

[phrostbyte]

Microsoft deserves an EU and US DoJ beating over this. It's clear TomTom isn't using FAT because it's an awesome technology, it's using it because that's the only way to be compatible with Windows. Microsoft is violating anti-trust law by making it difficult for competitors to interoperate with Windows.

[bapoumba]

Please remember to keep the discussions civil, thanks.

Edit: One thread merged.

[BuffaloX]

dang it, it's hard to think of as rumor about MS that isn't true!

:lol

Microsoft intend to put out their first product that doesn't suck.
The Microsoft vacuum cleaner.

[jacz]

edit

[phrostbyte]

Linux is just the OS underneath (it could have been any OS) the suit is against tomtom not linux

you really are the troll people say you are [-X

Yeah because Microsoft has no history at all (http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS3513440381.html) of ever threatening Linux in general over patents.

I think it's perfectly valid to consider this an attack on Linux, because FAT32 is not TomTom only.

[inobe]

again' their pie plates are cut wrong' therefor ms tactics are powerless to many they attempt to scare !

when the fud spreads' their piece of the pie gets smaller ..............


i am going over to delete vista off my wifes laptop rite now because of what i read ;)


now i will install linux on my customers computers, just an example of what fud does):P

[Grant A.]

Good Grief, Grant. READ.



If I want alarmist blog-quality "news" I'll turn on CNN or Fox.

So now you want to listen to Microsoft.

:roll:

Grant, dude, seriously, why are you here?

Apparently you guys aren't seeing the point, if Microsoft is suing TomTom over Linux, and they win, they are essentially setting a legal precedent saying that if your company uses Linux and you refuse to buy a license, then we will sue you.

Either way, since Linux is indirectly linked to this via FAT32 drivers, I really think that the FAT32 drivers should be taken out of the kernel.

[bakedbeans4life]

Apparently you guys aren't seeing the point, if Microsoft is suing TomTom over Linux, and they win, they are essentially setting a legal precedent saying that if your company uses Linux and you refuse to buy a license, then we will sue you.

I notice that you are from America, Microsoft's lack of morale scruples seems to require them to buy their way to victory (America's justice system seems not too dissimilar to an Ebay auction).

But will this make any headway within the confines of the EU? Linux and Open Source are a worldwide phenomena, the EU has already a bone to pick with Microsoft.

What next, Asia? Will they do battle with all those cheap rate Chinese sweatshops that use Linux to cut costs in all those consumer goods that flood into America.

It would not surprise me if Microsoft prevailed in the States (might as well spend those misbegotten billions buying something of use), but as to the rest of the world, I doubt.

[Grant A.]

I notice that you are from America, Microsoft's lack of morale scruples seems to require them to buy their way to victory (America's justice system seems not too dissimilar to an Ebay auction).

But will this make any headway within the confines of the EU? Linux and Open Source are a worldwide phenomena, the EU has already a bone to pick with Microsoft.

What next, Asia? Will they do battle with all those cheap rate Chinese sweatshops that use Linux to cut costs in all those consumer goods that flood into America.

It would not surprise me if Microsoft prevailed in the States (might as well spend those misbegotten billions buying something of use), but as to the rest of the world, I doubt.

Very good points, but the legal system is only an eBay auction when the Republicans are in office. The Democrats who currently hold the presidency and senate majority will probably do a bit more good for the consumer, seeing as, stated before, the start of Bush's presidency ended the last Microsoft Anti-Trust case.

[C!oud]

Apparently you guys aren't seeing the point, if Microsoft is suing TomTom over Linux, and they win, they are essentially setting a legal precedent saying that if your company uses Linux and you refuse to buy a license, then we will sue you.

Either way, since Linux is indirectly linked to this via FAT32 drivers, I really think that the FAT32 drivers should be taken out of the kernel.
If you are going to quote someone please do so properly. For example I merely put a :roll: because you seemed relieved that you don't use linux anymore. So why are you posting about the "Great Evil of Microsoft"? Seriously I have to agree with Skripta this is being blown way out of proportion.

Very good points, but the legal system is only an eBay auction when the Republicans are in office. The Democrats who currently hold the presidency and senate majority will probably do a bit more good for the consumer, seeing as, stated before, the start of Bush's presidency ended the last Microsoft Anti-Trust case.
Democrats have already had a Senate majority during Bush's presidency and the faults of the United States legal system isn't relevant to the party in office.

[Ozor Mox]

It would not surprise me if Microsoft prevailed in the States (might as well spend those misbegotten billions buying something of use), but as to the rest of the world, I doubt.

Not least of all because the entire lawsuit against TomTom is null and void outside of the US. Any attack on Linux regarding software patents means nothing anywhere else. Even if, and it makes me shudder to think about it, other countries adopted them, Linux simply isn't something you can kill. There is no target for a lawsuit beyond some of the distributors. It's too widespread, the source code is everywhere. I think it looks good though here in the UK, since an article someone posted recently showed that the government are interested in open source solutions :)

[Grant A.]

If you are going to quote someone please do so properly. For example I merely put a :roll: because you seemed relieved that you don't use linux anymore. So why are you posting about the "Great Evil of Microsoft"? Seriously I have to agree with Skripta this is being blown way out of proportion.


It's still SPAM. If you are going to post, please do so in a constructive manner. A smilie can mean anything, especially in this topic. And FYI, I moved back to Windows because it's my only choice at the moment. I despise using it after reading this article.


Democrats have already had a Senate majority during Bush's presidency and the faults of the United States legal system isn't relevant to the party in office.

Actually, at the beginning of Bush's presidency during the Microsoft Anti-Trust case, it was a Republican majority in congress.

And before I say something stupid: Welcome to my ignore list.


Not least of all because the entire lawsuit against TomTom is null and void outside of the US. Any attack on Linux regarding software patents means nothing anywhere else. Even if, and it makes me shudder to think about it, other countries adopted them, Linux simply isn't something you can kill. There is no target for a lawsuit beyond some of the distributors. It's too widespread, the source code is everywhere. I think it looks good though here in the UK, since an article someone posted recently showed that the government are interested in open source solutions


Software patents don't exist in the UK or EU?

[perlluver]

I was trying to stay out of these stupid things but.. My father-in-law had two inventions he wanted to get patented, but instead of patenting them for him, they patented and started to distribute it without his knowledge. Also patents are the stupidest things in this God forsaken world.

So tired of stupid patents, like Microsoft patenting the Page Up key, seriously. Oh well, I guess I will patent the word Windows, and sue Microsoft for using it. [-( :roll:

[C!oud]

It's still SPAM. If you are going to post, please do so in a constructive manner. A smilie can mean anything, especially in this topic. And FYI, I moved back to Windows because it's my only choice at the moment. I despise using it after reading this article.
Your original statement insinuated otherwise. But no matter this is a moot point that takes away from the discussion of the original article. Otherwise I'm just saying that let's not jump to conclusions and declare that "The Great War has begun!"


Actually, at the beginning of Bush's presidency during the Microsoft Anti-Trust case, it was a Republican majority in congress.
True but the Democrats have been in there for the last few years and not much has changed.

And before I say something stupid: Welcome to my ignore list.
That's just great.


Software patents don't exist in the UK or EU?
They are not the same as United States Software Patents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_the_European_Patent_Convent ion

[Chame_Wizard]

This only proves that M$ gone to try ANYTHING to destroy Linux.

They know that a lot of instantiates/companies are using Linux/BSD,so i hope they will K.O themselves out. :lolflag:

[phrostbyte]

Even if the win this I am pretty sure their patent on FAT32 expires in like 2011. Which isn't that far off.

But as you can see software patents are a very big danger, not just from Microsoft even. In fact Microsoft has a lot to lose if they start suing other Linux vendors, they are not in a good position to start a patent war. And really if mess around too much in a way that really hampers competition the US DoJ and EU will probably get involved. So I am not too worried for Linux. It is safe from Microsoft for now at least, but not software patents in general.

[bakedbeans4life]

Seriously I have to agree with Skripta this is being blown way out of proportion.

This could go one of two directions. Microsoft wins, companies all over the world wouldn't touch Linux and Open Source with a bargepole, Microsoft is happy. Microsoft loses, all of a sudden Linux and Open Source is given legitimacy and credibility, Microsoft is unhappy but will wait a while then try something else underhand, lowdown and dirty (as some think they did via SCO). The potential legal ramifications should not be downplayed and made light of.

I think as Microsoft sink deeper into the mire this opening salvo should be seen for what it is. The dinosaurs were one of the Earth's most successful family of animals, but even they succumbed to natural selection. Linux may well be that asteroid falling from the sky leaving a large crater where Microsoft used to be. But wouldn't a smaller, healthier and more sprightly Microsoft be better for everyone, even Microsoft?

[bobmatino17]

It isn't.

If folks would actually read articles and NOT alarmist blogs, Microsoft CLEARLY states this is not an opening move in a campaign against FOSS. The patents involved are largely due to the usage of FAT32.

This is the 2nd active thread on this BTW.

oh no, ive had linux on my usb stick while it was formatted w/ FAT32!

[picturefreedom]

:lolflag: we noobs should stop worrying and making FUZZ about something that is actually nothing!

head on to kernel's mailing list if you can see the same hysteria , if the real coders aren't worried, why should you? even more so if you aren't using IT. we shouldn't jump around like crazy chimpanzees when the giant gorrillas on the mountains are just observing quietly. :popcorn:

[RiceMonster]

Yikes! I'm glad I left Linux when I did.

So leave then.

I would take you a lot more seriously if you didn't replace the letter s with a dollar sign.

+1

Apparently you guys aren't seeing the point, if Microsoft is suing TomTom over Linux, and they win, they are essentially setting a legal precedent saying that if your company uses Linux and you refuse to buy a license, then we will sue you.

Uhhh... that's got absolutely nothing to do with what those people said.

[Twitch6000]

Am I the only one not giving a care in the world about this?

This is not the first time Microsoft has pulled this...

Heck sometime in the early 2000's or late 1990's they sued the linux kernel for having over 193 patents broken of MS.(or so they claimed)

OR something along those lines.

You know what, they lost too...

[swoll1980]

Microsoft can try to sue for anything they want too. In order to enforce the paten they have to prove they were the innovator, and that it wasn't inevitably Discoverable. I don't think they have a chance. Someone filed a paten on Linux, it didn't hold up in court for obvious reasons. Microsoft uses these pattens as a scare tactic they hold no weight.

[Skripka]

[B]

It reeks of a continuation of MS anti Linux FUD, even if they lose companies now know that they risk lawsuit from MS if they use Linux.

It reeks of FUD, yes-but from and by whom? I see lots of people up in arms worrying about the safety of Linux due to MS suing a for-profit hardware company over their use, or unlicensed use of FAT32.

Show me where Microsoft is suing Canonical/SUSE/RH (Or major companies which turn a profit on FOSS Linux OSes or services for said) over this. Point at it where they have said, or are going after them. Until you can show that, it is ye who are spreading FUD.

Point at it. I dare ya.

[Skripka]

So now you want to listen to Microsoft.


I'm not listening to microsoft, or anyone else without reason. There is NO REASON to believe Canonical/RH/etc are going to be in hot water over this tiny GPS manufacturer's implementation of linux. ALL I have seen pointing that they might are 3rd rate blogs I'd expect to see and read on CNN or FOX.

Show me the money, and I'll sharpen my pitchfork. Because, as it is right now from what I have read-you're making mountains out of ant hills.

TomTom couldn't even follow GPL-if they aren't smatrt enough in the legal department to get GPL (most Linux users know the salient basics of GPL-which TomTom couldn't or wouldn't even do...)-is it any suprise that MS would go after them for stupidly or not infringing on IP?

[Grant A.]

It reeks of FUD, yes-but from and by whom? I see lots of people up in arms worrying about the safety of Linux due to MS suing a for-profit hardware company over their use, or unlicensed use of FAT32.

Show me where Microsoft is suing Canonical/SUSE/RH (Or major companies which turn a profit on FOSS Linux OSes or services for said) over this. Point at it where they have said, or are going after them. Until you can show that, it is ye who are spreading FUD.

Point at it. I dare ya.

Of course it's FUD, but any litigation from Microsoft is clearly a threat and serious business. Microsoft isn't suing Canonical because it's a British company, and they aren't suing Novell or RedHat because those are very rich and powerful companies that are very difficult to pin down. On top of that, TomTom doesn't have OIN backing, so it is much easier and safer to sue it than it would be to sue RedHat.

[jacz]

A more reliable source http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/26/microsoft_tomtom/

It seems to going a little pear shaped since Bill Gates left

[yse]

Hmm.. thanks to linux fantrolls this topic and some others turns in pure comedy.

You peoples don't realize Microsoft dimensions, starting from financial and ending with development.

Is so easy to say "everything must be free", "free", "we want free code" and so on... i wonder if any of you who claim so loud that, will do it, if they run a software development business.

Please, keep the comment with open source is profitable for yourself, we know what companies based on open source are profitable and we know the reason exactly, but the whole world don't end with those companies. Start thinking, "you get what you paid for" stands true.

Is incredible how much you can blame Microsoft, really peoples, stop it, Microsoft is good how it is now, THEY INVEST MILLIONS OF $$$ in software developments, how many others do that?? Do you think the actual technologies was available if some one didn't do it???? They did it, Apple did it, stop the stupid comments, look how open source world try to survive instead, is going nowhere.

[blastus]

I don't get it, Microsoft has little to nothing to do with GPS navigation devices. How can they possibly have patents on this stuff?

I don't know how big TomTom is but they can't be that big, so this would likely mean the end of them. Is Microsoft planning to introduce a GPS navigation device?

[jpeddicord]

This isn't IRC.* Please keep this thread sane.


(*not really appropriate to fight over IRC either!)

[bakedbeans4life]

I'm not listening to microsoft, or anyone else without reason. There is NO REASON to believe Canonical/RH/etc are going to be in hot water over this tiny GPS manufacturer's implementation of linux. ALL I have seen pointing that they might are 3rd rate blogs I'd expect to see and read on CNN or FOX.

Show me the money, and I'll sharpen my pitchfork. Because, as it is right now from what I have read-you're making mountains out of ant hills.

TomTom couldn't even follow GPL-if they aren't smatrt enough in the legal department to get GPL (most Linux users know the salient basics of GPL-which TomTom couldn't or wouldn't even do...)-is it any suprise that MS would go after them for stupidly or not infringing on IP?


"There is NO REASON to believe Canonical/RH/etc are going to be in hot water over this tiny GPS manufacturer's implementation of linux."

What would happen if Microsoft won, where would it end? This is merely the start, from small acorns and all that.

Can you honestly tell me you believe that Microsoft would rest on their laurels with just a favourable judgment against Tom-Tom? If this is so then I'm totally aghast.

Tom-Tom certainly need to be rebuked for failure to comply with the guidelines set down in the GPL, but this does not excuse Microsoft from being a predatory bully.

[HuaiDan]

Pay for hardware you can hold in your hand, pay for services rendered if needed, pay entitlements when software is used for commercial purposes. Otherwise, free as in speech and beer. It's suited Linux for this long, and they've got a hell of a product to compete with MS's untold million spent on software development. How do you like them apples?



Hmm.. thanks to linux fantrolls this topic and some others turns in pure comedy.

You peoples don't realize Microsoft dimensions, starting from financial and ending with development.

Is so easy to say "everything must be free", "free", "we want free code" and so on... i wonder if any of you who claim so loud that, will do it, if they run a software development business.

Please, keep the comment with open source is profitable for yourself, we know what companies based on open source are profitable and we know the reason exactly, but the whole world don't end with those companies. Start thinking, "you get what you paid for" stands true.

Is incredible how much you can blame Microsoft, really peoples, stop it, Microsoft is good how it is now, THEY INVEST MILLIONS OF $$$ in software developments, how many others do that?? Do you think the actual technologies was available if some one didn't do it???? They did it, Apple did it, stop the stupid comments, look how open source world try to survive instead, is going nowhere.

[bakedbeans4life]

Hmm.. thanks to linux fantrolls this topic and some others turns in pure comedy.

You peoples don't realize Microsoft dimensions, starting from financial and ending with development.

Is so easy to say "everything must be free", "free", "we want free code" and so on... i wonder if any of you who claim so loud that, will do it, if they run a software development business.

Please, keep the comment with open source is profitable for yourself, we know what companies based on open source are profitable and we know the reason exactly, but the whole world don't end with those companies. Start thinking, "you get what you paid for" stands true.

Is incredible how much you can blame Microsoft, really peoples, stop it, Microsoft is good how it is now, THEY INVEST MILLIONS OF $$$ in software developments, how many others do that?? Do you think the actual technologies was available if some one didn't do it???? They did it, Apple did it, stop the stupid comments, look how open source world try to survive instead, is going nowhere.

I guess Linux and Open Source must be doing something right if Microsoft's user-base feels the need to come to a Linux and Open Source forum to defend Microsoft.

Not all the problems of the world should be laid a Microsoft's feet. But they sure aint helpin any.

"Stay On Topic!!!" from this day forward this will be my mantra. :-)

[Skripka]

"There is NO REASON to believe Canonical/RH/etc are going to be in hot water over this tiny GPS manufacturer's implementation of linux."

What would happen if Microsoft won, where would it end? This is merely the start, from small acorns and all that.

Can you honestly tell me you believe that Microsoft would rest on their laurels with just a favourable judgment against Tom-Tom? If this is so then I'm totally aghast.

Tom-Tom certainly need to be rebuked for failure to comply with the guidelines set down in the GPL, but this does not excuse Microsoft from being a predatory bully.

Not the use of "If" and "would". From there on your worries are pure supposition./ They might or moght not. Either way the way it takes things to filter through the court system-it will be a year at least before anything is more concrete on what might happen next. Until then, sleep easy-and perhaps stock up on your Repo Backup DVDs and distro DVDs. ):P

[r m h]

The sole reason that FOSS gained the foothold it did, starting nearly 20 years ago and has prospered to date is that people and companies have been screwed by closed source vendors for licensing costs and maintenance fees that abused their customers.

Only when the pain of status quo exceeds the pain of change will change occur. We have been seeing wholesale changes in this industry because of this simple fact.

With the changes Microsoft has been implementing, we are seeing the pain of changing less than the pain of remaining Microsoft. These additional changes Microsoft is implementing for its customers are only hastening this change.

Why, oh, why can't they get a clue? They are only hastening their demise.

[bakedbeans4life]

Not the use of "If" and "would". From there on your worries are pure supposition./ They might or moght not. Either way the way it takes things to filter through the court system-it will be a year at least before anything is more concrete on what might happen next. Until then, sleep easy-and perhaps stock up on your Repo Backup DVDs and distro DVDs. ):P

The fact that this may take a while to reach the courts is something Microsoft has planned all along. They can ride the fallout from the FUD until the release of Windows 7. Didn't Ballmer announce to the world that Linux violated over 300 Microsoft patents around the same time Vista was released into the wild, coincidence?

Some may call me paranoid, but I'm just careful with regards to the devil at my door. Forewarned is forearmed.

[Grant A.]

Apparently, I am not the only one worried, and according to the article, some pretty influential people may launch a counterstrike against Microsoft. :)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10173126-75.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5

[bakedbeans4life]

I think Microsoft's relationship with Open Source is comparable to Russia's interaction with America during the cold war. We shadow them, they shadow us.

Damn, would that make Miguel de Icaza a double agent? ;)

[Grant A.]

I think Microsoft's relationship with Open Source is comparable to Russia's interaction with America during the cold war. We shadow them, they shadow us.

Damn, would that make Miguel de Icaza a double agent? ;)

It almost seems as if you suggest that a patent nuclear war is foreshadowing us. ;)

My history teacher always described the modern day Russia as a friend who would like to stab you in the back, it looks as if Microsoft is the new Russia.

[pparks1]

What a terrible thread title....this isn't a direct attack on Linux...nor are we about to see one anytime soon.

Each year, this topic comes up, Microsoft throws out some random number about how many patents have potentially been violated. The community reacts, and when any linux advocates like Moeglen say anything about keeping a close eye on the situation, it somehow turns into an admission of guilt and now the ship is going to sink.

Microsoft often doesn't fight fair or play nice with others. This comes as no surprise to anybody. So, of course the Linux community braces and contemplates taking steps in the right direction.

I'm certainly not concerned over the possible patent infringements. If the actual items are upheld, I'm pretty sure that we will see a quick workaround to get past the problem. However, I honestly don't see most of these patents being upheld, which I believe is historically why Microsoft has never really truly pressed the issue.

[phrostbyte]

Apparently, I am not the only one worried, and according to the article, some pretty influential people may launch a counterstrike against Microsoft. :)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10173126-75.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5

Begun the patent war has.

[Grant A.]

What a terrible thread title....this isn't a direct attack on Linux...nor are we about to see one anytime soon.

Each year, this topic comes up, Microsoft throws out some random number about how many patents have potentially been violated. The community reacts, and when any linux advocates like Moeglen say anything about keeping a close eye on the situation, it somehow turns into an admission of guilt and now the ship is going to sink.

Microsoft often doesn't fight fair or play nice with others. This comes as no surprise to anybody. So, of course the Linux community braces and contemplates taking steps in the right direction.

I'm certainly not concerned over the possible patent infringements. If the actual items are upheld, I'm pretty sure that we will see a quick workaround to get past the problem. However, I honestly don't see most of these patents being upheld, which I believe is historically why Microsoft has never really truly pressed the issue.

You make a pretty insightful point there, I really think that that sums up pretty much everything that concerned me as to this. =D>

[cmat]

They will never win this. They haven't enforced FAT for decades and don't seem to mind when it's being use on MP3 players and flash drives. This is just a cheap stunt to begin their assault on vendors of linux based products. Wait until the new generation of ARM based netbooks come out, we'll see some real mud slinging.

[antiloop]

Mayday mayday Microsoft is going down.

[Chame_Wizard]

This happens when M$ lost the case,Steve Ballmer:"Redmond,we have a problem".

[Lunx]

Re: Microsoft's patent war over Linux has begun

Oh no, the sky is falling, the sky is falling...

:rolleyes:

[MikeTheC]

<Hypothetically>

If "bad guys" were to enter American airspace and fly a strafing run across a certain section of Redmond, WA, I might fail to cry over it.

</Hypothetically>

This does make a nice contrast, don't you think, with Ballmer's recent comments on how Apple is basically "ruining things" by not going with "open standards"?

Folks, I am so glad that Steve Ballmer is running Microsoft right now. I just hope Apple and the F/OSS community can position themselves to best go on the offensive, each in their own way, against that demon giant and take 'em out, once and for all.

WTF is S.B. running Microsoft and not hawking used cars somewhere? Hmm???

[jocheem67]

There might very well be a relation between this lawsuit and the following ongoing developments:

In Europe MS has a big problem with the European Committee regarding their bundling of IE with Windows, a battle where they will probably be forced to ship windows with more than one browser ( Opera, Google and Mozilla are the companies that claim this atm )...

Linux is gaining more and more popularity in the second and third world countries, leaving MS behind them...

Netbooks...

The Recession....

The outcome of these developments may be cloudy, but that MS is having a hard time to control as they did until now, is a sure thing.

Interesting stuff.

[Firestem4]

There might very well be a relation between this lawsuit and the following ongoing developments:

In Europe MS has a big problem with the European Committee regarding their bundling of IE with Windows, a battle where they will probably be forced to ship windows with more than one browser ( Opera, Google and Mozilla are the companies that claim this atm )...

Linux is gaining more and more popularity in the second and third world countries, leaving MS behind them...

Netbooks...

The Recession....

The outcome of these developments may be cloudy, but that MS is having a hard time to control as they did until now, is a sure thing.

Interesting stuff.

History teaches us one thing: Nothing, no one, and no group will ever last forever.

Businesses rise and topple all the time. While I certainly doubt that Microsoft will die anytime soon. Eventually it will happen.

/off topic rant over. =)

[Methuselah]

Microsoft will not be starting a patent war with Linux.
Ever heard of 'mutually assured destruction'?
Quite a few of Microsoft's patent's would probably be proved spurious as well and they would be found in violation of many.
It would be amazing if the entire software patent world were left standing.

Software patents are primarily defensive weapons against patent trolls (companies that don't really make anything but make money by suing those who do for patent infringement).
Really, since so many companies use and contribute to Linux (the sum total of which dwarf Microsoft) it would not be pretty.

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Members
(IBM is a really big one with tons of patents itself and happens to use Linux quite a bit)

All that would happen is that MS would be counter-sued for patent infringement.
I GUARANTEE you IBM (for example) has patents they could threaten MS with(about 500 of which they even pledged to Linux a few years ago).

[Sealbhach]

Microsoft will not be starting a patent war with Linux.


I think they just have. Although they say this is about "Tom Tom's implementation of Linux" it's still a smear, it spreads fear, uncertainty, doubt.

Microsoft uses the courts as a branch of its marketing strategy. By the time the courts get round to making a ruling, the damage is already done.


.

[ade234uk]

w*Nk*Rs

[bapoumba]

http://endsoftpatents.org/looking-at-microsoft-s-fat-patents-through-bilski-glasses/

I have not read over the entire thread to see if this link had already been posted. My apologies if it had.

[bryncoles]

well, it was always claimed (and thats anecdotal, im not gonna support that assertion either! ;)) that if microsoft ever did actually sue someone, they'd have to reveal the patents that were breeched. such would cause those patents to be revealed, and then knights in shining armour would come blazing a trail over snow-capped mountains, and wind-swept plains, coding hither and thus until not a trace of that patentable code remained in our precious GPL...

so, this could be a test case for microsoft, to see if they can establish a precedent for suing bigger companies. make sure they can win before they go into a fight.

could also mean that by revealing their hand - even one card in it, we can start disarming them by replacing code which may be used against us.

lets see...

[nothingspecial]

Am I the only one not giving a care in the world about this?

Nope, I couldn`t give a bleeding monkeys.

[dgray_from_dc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/internet_troll

+1

[Antman]

yikes! I'm glad i left linux when i did.
??? :lolflag: ???

[Vorian Grey]

All I can say to MS is bring it on. Even if Linux were to lose, and I'm not saying they would, that would be better than the current situation where MS spreads FUD and uses scare tactics to discourage businesses from using Linux. Let's get it out in the open and deal with it.

[koenn]

What's the problem ?
A/ this law suit is against TomTom, not Linux, OSS, or whatever. If MS wins this suite, TomTom will pay, not anyone else.

B/ the linux issue is about "TomTom's implementation of the Linux kernel".

C/ "Microsoft says open-source software is not the intended focal point of the action. " http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft_sues_TomTom_over_patents_in_case_with_Li nux_subplot_40305732.html

D/ every time Microsoft makes (vague) claims about patent infringement in Linux code, everyone goes "tell us with patents and tell us which code infringes, and we'll fix it". The law suit lists the patents - and the patents' content is available online. We're making progress.







http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212

3 patents are related to TomTom's implementation of the Linux kernel. Yikes! I'm glad I left Linux when I did.

[Sealbhach]

C/ "Microsoft says open-source software is not the intended focal point of the action. " http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft_sues_TomTom_over_patents_in_case_with_Li nux_subplot_40305732.html



Sorry, but I would never rely on "Microsoft says" for anything.


.

[koenn]

Sorry, but I would never rely on "Microsoft says" for anything.


true, that's the weaker one of the 4, but
seeing that they sue a 3th party, not Linux, over 8 patents, 3 of which maybe having some bearing on the linux code (support for FAT32 seems one of them), hardly warrants thread titles like "MS's patent war over Linux" or even "Microsoft sues TomTom over Linux and other patent claims"

[Telekinesis]

It's still SPAM. If you are going to post, please do so in a constructive manner.

The irony is killing me. Really, it is.

[saulgoode]

What's the problem ?
A/ this law suit is against TomTom, not Linux, OSS, or whatever. If MS wins this suite, TomTom will pay, not anyone else.
Linux is released under GPL version 2. If TomTom licenses patents for kernel code then by Section 7 of the GPLv2 they must pass that patent licensing downstream or lose all rights to redistribute the kernel.

That's the problem.

[Giant Speck]

I love these kinds of threads. It's very entertaining to watch members of the Ubuntu community tear each other apart over something so stupid.

:popcorn:

[andras artois]

Microsoft could have just done the right thing and carried on making windows, actually listen to people and remove the numerous security flaws, not charge an arm and a leg for it, not be so hostile to other companys for no other reason than they can. But instead they're making idiots out of themselves. They lost a lot of money because they messed up on Vista and they now plan on trying to charge you for how many windows you have open.

They represent all the greed and selfishness in the world. They could easily charge less for their OS and stop all this trying to stomp out Linux business and still earn the same amount they do now.

It's pathetic.

[Bungo Pony]

Funny that MS only starts to sue now, even though other OSes used the FAT file system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table

File Allocation Table or FAT is a computer file system architecture now widely used on most computer systems and most memory cards, such as those used with digital cameras.

It was developed by Bill Gates and Marc McDonald during 1976–1977.[1][2] It is the primary file system for various operating systems including DR-DOS, OpenDOS, FreeDOS, MS-DOS, OS/2 (v1.1) and Microsoft Windows (through Windows Me).

I'm starting to think that MS is suffering financially if they need to start lawsuits that could've been started years ago.

Microsoft is the Metallica of software.

[bakedbeans4life]

I sometimes wonder if Microsoft are aware of the backlash they sometimes create by taking actions such as this. Bad PR has cost them billions, Vista being the most prominent example. Even if this lawsuit against Tom-Tom is about FAT, they must have known the consequences of doing so.

Microsoft has shot itself in the foot far too often, they never seem to learn. They may have a lot of money, but at this rate they may need it.

Most ebullient Microsoft folks don't seem to care who's toes they step on (Ballmer's type), but I think not all in Redmond feel this way. Unfortunately these are not the people that run the company.

[notwen]

This thread makes me laugh. I seriously doubt that Microsoft will pursue individual users should they start a patent war and that they'll simply simply shut down distro funding/maintainers should they win.

I highly doubt I'll live to see this day. =]

[ice60]

ms will never attack linux over patents because they have fewer patents than the big FLOSS friendly companies, they'd lose everything!

patent threads are so boring, why don't you all go and jump off a cliff and film it and put it on youtube? get someone to post a link to the video.

[koenn]

Linux is released under GPL version 2. If TomTom licenses patents for kernel code then by Section 7 of the GPLv2 they must pass that patent licensing downstream or lose all rights to redistribute the kernel.

That's the problem.
I'm probably missing something here, but how is that a problem ?

[koenn]

patent threads are so boring, ...
noone's forcing you to read them ...


why don't you all go and jump off a cliff and film it and put it on youtube?
OK. Wanna show us how it's done ?

[venekirsa]

European Union needs a penalty department for Microsoft's and other software baron's stupidities!!!

[bodhi.zazen]

Moved to recurring discussions

[HuaiDan]

Copyright laws are a lot like god, the stock market, and other fairy tales. They only have power when you believe in them.

[bodhi.zazen]

Copyright laws are a lot like god, the stock market, and other fairy tales. They only have power when you believe in them.

That is not true, copyright laws are enforceable, but not necessarily across international borders.

But within borders they certainly are, ie if you live in the US, you are subject to US copyright law.

It remains to be determined if Microsoft has a case and until they present their data these conversations are nothing but hype and conjecture.

[lykwydchykyn]

This has nothing to do with copyrights. It's a patent case. copyrights != patents.

[Giant Speck]

Can we please keep the discussion civil and not tell others to jump off cliffs?

[TheUnderTaker]

Dont you think that Microsoft should Protect NTFS instead of fat32? Fat32 is used in almost every device. Like the Ipod PSP Playstation 3s Filesystem I believe.

[koenn]

That is not true, copyright laws are enforceable, but not necessarily across international borders.

But within borders they certainly are, ie if you live in the US, you are subject to US copyright law.

It remains to be determined if Microsoft has a case and until they present their data these conversations are nothing but hype and conjecture.

they claim TomTom infringes on U.S. Patent Nos. 6,175,789; 7,054,745; 6,704,032; 7,117,286; 6,202,008; 5,579,517; 5,758,352; and 6,256,642
http://media.techflash.com/documents/tomtomComplaint.pdf

eg http://www.google.com/patents?q=6175789

but indeed it remains to be seen if they have a case ...

[Kopachris]

they claim TomTom infringes on U.S. Patent Nos. 6,175,789; 7,054,745; 6,704,032; 7,117,286; 6,202,008; 5,579,517; 5,758,352; and 6,256,642
http://media.techflash.com/documents/tomtomComplaint.pdf

eg http://www.google.com/patents?q=6175789

but indeed it remains to be seen if they have a case ...
So basically, Microsoft has control over any vehicle computer system capable of removable storage, wifi, and word processing. Antitrust case, anyone?

[Grant A.]

So basically, Microsoft has control over any vehicle computer system capable of removable storage, wifi, and word processing. Antitrust case, anyone?

Wow, those patents do have a very un-specific and obvious wording. How on Earth did the patent office pass those?

[pparks1]

Wow, those patents do have a very un-specific and obvious wording. How on Earth did the patent office pass those?

Patents don't really mean anything until they are challenged and upheld. That's how they can pass with such vague wording.

This is the reason that so many people get irritated with talks and discussions of software patents and the likes...because they are all too often just like this and attempt to cover everything and exclude everybody else. That's not simply protecting your intellectual property, but rather trying to be an exclusive provider. And we all have learned from experience that monopolies just aren't in the best interests of the consumers.

[solitaire]

Microsoft are trying to get "Tom Tom" to violate Section 7 of the GPL v2
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html

Basically if Microsoft win the patent dispute or Tom Tom licenses the rights for FAT from Microsoft they loose the right to distribute the program under GPLv2. So that prevents TomTom from selling devices with that software installed.