Windows (Vista)

[markr]

I've just been having a crisis of faith recently, I set up Ubuntu on my laptop but I've been having problems setting up Hibernate, suspend etc (The usual stuff). I'm dual booting and using WinXP for work.

I was just thinking that everything in my WinXP environment just works. I can suspend my system and get it back (I'm not worried that it may or may not actually work; it just does).

I'm getting the hang of OpenOffice, but still need to use Visio and Project (as we don't have linux equivalents that use the same file format); I am looking at QEMU or VMWare to run WinXP within Linux, but this kinda defects the object.

I'm in the process of buying a firewire dual-layer DVD writer and a Dazzle Video to USB convertor to get my home video onto my machine and edit it/write to DVD etc. I know for a fact that these will work out of the box on my WinXP paritition, I just don't know if they will work under Ubuntu with days of configuring.

I've just been looking at some of the Vista screenshots, wow; do you think Gnome will ever look as good/slick as that?

Don't get me wrong I've been using Ubuntu for about 6 months and really would like to dump my WinXP partition; but I see it as a safety net at the moment, if something does not work as expected in Ubuntu, at least I can reboot into windows and get the job done.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here, I'm just looking for an informed discussion on when people think Linux will be ready for the mainstream?

Mark.

[curuxz]

*sigh* here we go again. Mate my pc works 10 times better out of the box than any windows computer I have used. You want vista go get vista, enjoy the cost, viruses, spyware and poor product quality for a few cheap effects (that you can already get on kde, not sure about gnome). The fact is that yes SOME things don't work great yet but thats because people have not gotten around to them, if you stick with it and share your knowlege of solutions then it will become easyer for those that follow you on the same hardware. Linux is an organic process but to hear yet another person ask if its ready for the main stream? That question makes me cringe because the true question is are YOU ready to setup a computer, windows is just a flashy automatic peice of junk, computers take time, require skill and knowlege...but leave you with fast, stable and reliable systems that can out perform, impress and run flawlessly. If your not willing to learn fair enough, but I would much rather spend a week setting up a strange peice of hardware in linux than a minute in windows doing yet another spyware/virus scan wondering where my credit card details are being sent because MS only cares about release dates and making money.

If you don't want a flame war ( I dont think i have flamed you) I would advice you get rid of the very poor "is linux ready for the mainstream question?" because its a realy realy bad one and depends on your perspective. I think you will find yours is as a windows user, that sucks for you but the rest of us get on without problems most of the time....

Hope you change your mind :)

[poofyhairguy]

I've just been having a crisis of faith recently, I set up Ubuntu on my laptop but I've been having problems setting up Hibernate, suspend etc (The usual stuff). I'm dual booting and using WinXP for work.

I was just thinking that everything in my WinXP environment just works. I can suspend my system and get it back (I'm not worried that it may or may not actually work; it just does).

I'm getting the hang of OpenOffice, but still need to use Visio and Project (as we don't have linux equivalents that use the same file format); I am looking at QEMU or VMWare to run WinXP within Linux, but this kinda defects the object.


Not completely. I mean, in that case you could use the best of both worlds in a way. People on the forum run XP inside of Ubuntu all the time, whats wrong with the other way? Sounds like a fun way to keep your favorite Linux apps and still be an Ubuntuer. No less in my eyes.


I'm in the process of buying a firewire dual-layer DVD writer and a Dazzle Video to USB convertor to get my home video onto my machine and edit it/write to DVD etc. I know for a fact that these will work out of the box on my WinXP paritition, I just don't know if they will work under Ubuntu with days of configuring.

Use them as you can. Many here dual boot for games and such. Its ok to get done what you need to get done. No judging you.


I've just been looking at some of the Vista screenshots, wow; do you think Gnome will ever look as good/slick as that?

Here is a video of someone using my Composite Manager Guide:

http://www.jannol.com/test/demo-0.mpg

from here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=75527

Has the fading and drop shadows just like Vista. With the Clearlooks Cairo theme it has neat animation (I use daily):

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=89056

It might not be exactly the same, but some of us have really neat stuff right now a year before Vista is on the shelf.


Don't get me wrong I've been using Ubuntu for about 6 months and really would like to dump my WinXP partition; but I see it as a safety net at the moment, if something does not work as expected in Ubuntu, at least I can reboot into windows and get the job done.

Keep your net. I have a Windows partition my whole first year. Its ok. Ubuntu makes no demands of you- just please stay positive! Do what you can do and no one will think less of you.


I'm not trying to start a flame war here, I'm just looking for an informed discussion on when people think Linux will be ready for the mainstream?


Thats this thread:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=107119

[poofyhairguy]

*sigh* here we go again. Mate my pc works 10 times better out of the box than any windows computer I have used. You want vista go get vista, enjoy the cost, viruses, spyware and poor product quality for a few cheap effects (that you can already get on kde, not sure about gnome). The fact is that yes SOME things don't work great yet but thats because people have not gotten around to them, if you stick with it and share your knowlege of solutions then it will become easyer for those that follow you on the same hardware. Linux is an organic process but to hear yet another person ask if its ready for the main stream? That question makes me cringe because the true question is are YOU ready to setup a computer, windows is just a flashy automatic peice of junk, computers take time, require skill and knowlege...but leave you with fast, stable and reliable systems that can out perform, impress and run flawlessly. If your not willing to learn fair enough, but I would much rather spend a week setting up a strange peice of hardware in linux than a minute in windows doing yet another spyware/virus scan wondering where my credit card details are being sent because MS only cares about release dates and making money.

Lets not be so negative. Windows has a place on the world. Each user must determine their own path- its choice that makes like (and open source software) great.

[curuxz]

Lets not be so negative. Windows has a place on the world. Each user must determine their own path- its choice that makes like (and open source software) great.

Im not being negitive poof (that was not ment as an insult :S just a short version of your nick :S) anyways... yea im not being negitive its just this is like the x' number of posts we have seen on this issue, why not post on one of the existing threads or realise that just because one person has problems does not mean the community as a whole has this much trouble. I love ubuntu it just works, windows never worked for anyone i know and im sick to death of reading missinformed people ask when linux is ready for the mainstream, linux IS the mainstream, we are here now growing faster than ever before while microsoft is withering and dying. I think these kinds of reposts are just annoying.

He should have tacked it on to one of the many other threads on this issue since starting a fresh one is like no one is listening to the far more valid reasons to stick with ubuntu.

[markr]

Hmmm... Curuxz, I think you misunderstand me; I want to learn about Linux, I want to use Linux; I just get frustrated occasionally when it seems that simple things I've taken for granted seem to take days to configure in Ubuntu (don't get me wrong, most of the time I enjoy puzzling out solutions, sometimes though it get's on top of me).

by mainstream, all I meant was could you stick ubuntu on a secretaries desktop machine and (after obvious cross over training etc) and expect the same level of productivity; I think you would be struggling. Your comment about "computers require skill, and knowlege...and if your not willing to learn then fair enough" is typical of alot of Linux 'advocated'; until an operating system can be installed on a machine and 'work' without extensive knowledge, it will be no more than a niche product.



Don't get me wrong; I'm a big advocate of Linux; but people must understand that until the normal 'joe' in the street can install Linux and not have to spend time editing /etc/network/interfaces to get wireless working; it will never be true competition for MS in the workplace.

I stand by my mainstream 'question'; and would suggest that Linux is not ready to compete with MS head-on yet; I do agree that Linux is making headway in this arena, but until it can support 'standard' business functions, I think we will have difficulty.

Mark.

[JimmyJazz]

actually MS is trying to catch up with Linux in many ways with Vista true, linux may not have the eye candy that Vista does but its gettting there very quick (KDE may already be there). Generally this what I have found, Windows often is easier at first but Linux will give you a true solution if you are willing to study it just a little bit. Take some time and learn how to use the system and soon you will unlock the true value of using linux.

[JimmyJazz]

Hmmm... Curuxz, I think you misunderstand me; I want to learn about Linux, I want to use Linux; I just get frustrated occasionally when it seems that simple things I've taken for granted seem to take days to configure in Ubuntu (don't get me wrong, most of the time I enjoy puzzling out solutions, sometimes though it get's on top of me).

by mainstream, all I meant was could you stick ubuntu on a secretaries desktop machine and (after obvious cross over training etc) and expect the same level of productivity; I think you would be struggling. Your comment about "computers require skill, and knowlege...and if your not willing to learn then fair enough" is typical of alot of Linux 'advocated'; until an operating system can be installed on a machine and 'work' without extensive knowledge, it will be no more than a niche product.



Don't get me wrong; I'm a big advocate of Linux; but people must understand that until the normal 'joe' in the street can install Linux and not have to spend time editing /etc/network/interfaces to get wireless working; it will never be true competition for MS in the workplace.

I stand by my mainstream 'question'; and would suggest that Linux is not ready to compete with MS head-on yet; I do agree that Linux is making headway in this arena, but until it can support 'standard' business functions, I think we will have difficulty.

Mark.

I have found that UBUNTU install and works quite well out of the box for the average user most people will never even need to find the terminal. There a major push for this right now in the Linux community, more than ever it seems. Never fear Dapper is near.

[markr]

I must admit, I find myself really looking forward to the Duck!!!

If it does most of what I'm hoping for, I can't wait for the release.

You mentioned KDE as well, I must admit I do like KDE, but have recently gone back to Gnome as it seems much more stable in Ubuntu. KUbuntu seems to have quite a few stabilit problems, and some things that work right out of the box in Gnome (my multimedia keys spring to mind) don't work so well in KDE; if they get it together in Dapper I'll give it another try...

Mark.

[curuxz]

I have to say that linux for new users is easyer than windows, esp in the long term because once setup it will perform well instead of dyin from security issues like windows. For internet, email and word processing systems it wins hands down and im sure your secutary would not need to install linux them selfs just as they would not install their windows system them self. So in that situation linux would be far more productive, and cost effective.

Linux only falls down in situations where the 3rd party hardware is so in bed with MS that they take steps to make it hard for linux to use (many compaines still do) or in high end gaming situations, but again thats down to 3'rd parties screwing over the linux community.

[JimmyJazz]

yeah I agree I'm kinda hoping for better KDE support in Dapper but I am quite happy with Gnome, I just like having options (something you don't get alot of in Windows BTW).

[markr]

I'd agree with curuxz in that it seems to be the 3rd party companies screwing over the linux community; if they released dlinux drivers for their hardware we would not have a problem.

JimmyJazz, you have a very good point that I have Gnome and KDE (+ others) to choose from; with windows I was stuck with the 'windows' theme.

Roll on Dapper I say

[curuxz]

I wonder if the linux community could mout a law suit (esp in america considering how easy it is to sue people) against the leaders of the big compaines like ATI who still refuse to provide support to their platform under unfair trading or disgrimination. Or file an anti-trust suit against them for proping up microsofts monopoly by deliberate non-disclosure of API's and drivers. Trouble is you would have sue just about all major compaines since most dont support linux... :(

[darth_vector]

cheer up curuxz, perhaps such things are on their way... you've heard about all the problems microsoft is having in the us (anti-trust) and europe. you never know.

back to the original topic of discussion though; have you guys seen the minimum requirements for vista? i have a great gaming platform that runs hl2, farcry and doom3 like a dream i will *barely* get by without a major hardware upgrade. not that i intend on getting vista, but hey...

[curuxz]

They have been downsizing the requirments the closer they get to selling it, orignaly it would need something like an amd x2 just too boot, now its down to something like a 3.6 64bit may pull it off......

Good news for us if they spec them selfs out of the market

[Swab]

They have been downsizing the requirments the closer they get to selling it, orignaly it would need something like an amd x2 just too boot, now its down to something like a 3.6 64bit may pull it off......

Good news for us if they spec them selfs out of the market

I think Microsoft intentionally require high spec machines with each new release of Windows. This insures that hardware vendors make money, which is incentive for them to stick with MS. Linux on the other hand runs on old hardware which is of no interest to the hardware vendors...

[darth_vector]

I'd agree with curuxz in that it seems to be the 3rd party companies screwing over the linux community; if they released dlinux drivers for their hardware we would not have a problem.

the thing i dont get is that some of them actively set put to harm the linux community. connexant - the modem manufacturer - tried to file suite against linuxant because they were writting linux drivers for their modems. its not like connexant makes any money of windows drivers - they give them away on their website. why would they want to stop linux from using your product?