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mmitt
January 28th, 2009, 02:45 AM
Yes I am a Ubuntu noob so I'm sure this is a stupid question. I am running ubuntu 8.10 and like it. However, it is still confusing me, and I'm wondering if KDE or Gnome is easier to complete a transition from Windows with. KDE 4.2 was released and made me wonder, it looks so cool :).

fubbleskag
January 28th, 2009, 02:52 AM
imo, kde is more like windows - or, perhaps better said, is easier to make more like windows.

mmitt
January 28th, 2009, 02:54 AM
imo, kde is more like windows - or, perhaps better said, is easier to make more like windows.
Ok thanks, all I needed to know. Can I change ubuntu straight to KDE or do I need a fresh install?

loell
January 28th, 2009, 02:56 AM
yes you can just install kde alongside Ubuntu (gnome)

sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop

then in the login manager (you can choose Kde or Gnome)

mmitt
January 28th, 2009, 02:58 AM
yes you can just install kde

sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
Great thanks! Will this uninstall everything that I had on Gnome? nothing important really. But can i uninstall Gnome too?

snova
January 28th, 2009, 02:59 AM
Regarding the thread title, KDE is generally accused of being more like Windows.

But realistically, you can make either desktop look like Windows- I have seen some setups that were virtually indistinguishable.


However, it is still confusing me, and I'm wondering if KDE or Gnome is easier to complete a transition from Windows with.

Hmm, I would actually recommend Gnome.


KDE 4.2 was released and made me wonder, it looks so cool :).

You can try it out yourself easily enough: http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/kde

mmitt
January 28th, 2009, 03:02 AM
Regarding the thread title, KDE is generally accused of being more like Windows.
Because it has more customization right? That is kinda what I'm looking for too.



You can try it out yourself easily enough: http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/kde
Thanks for link!

loell
January 28th, 2009, 03:03 AM
Great thanks! Will this uninstall everything that I had on Gnome? nothing important really.

nothing will be un-installed, you can use programs that is intended for Gnome and vice versa.


But can i uninstall Gnome too?[

yeah, but this is rarely done.

mmitt
January 28th, 2009, 03:06 AM
nothing will be un-installed, you can use programs that is intended for Gnome and vice versa.
Really? The screenshots have much different programs...



yeah, but this is rarely done.
Why would this be?

BDNiner
January 28th, 2009, 03:07 AM
They will both be installed along side each other. You can switch between the 2 desktop environments from the session button on the login in window. If you are going to have both kde and gnome installed I would recommed that you install the kmenu-gnome package and the gnome-menu-extended package. Having them both installed tends to mess up each other's menus. The packages can be found on www.gnome-look.org I believe.

mmitt
January 28th, 2009, 03:09 AM
They will both be installed along side each other. You can switch between the 2 desktop environments from the session button on the login in window. If you are going to have both kde and gnome installed I would recommed that you install the kmenu-gnome package and the gnome-menu-extended package. Having them both installed tends to mess up each other's menus. The packages can be found on www.gnome-look.org I believe.
Thank you for the reply!

handydan918
January 28th, 2009, 03:11 AM
Regarding the thread title, KDE is generally accused of being more like Windows.



Yes, and anyone old enough to remember will note that Gnome STILL looks like Apples O/S 9....

BDNiner
January 28th, 2009, 03:13 AM
I feel the main reason people feel like KDE behaves like windows is because you can set it to behave like windows concerning the mouse and keyboard short cuts.

loell
January 28th, 2009, 03:15 AM
Really? The screenshots have much different programs...

they are, but they can run without any problems.



Why would this be?

just cause.. ;)

usually people just installs kubuntu (KDE) , but when people install two desktop environments, they just rarely uninstall the other.

loell
January 28th, 2009, 03:17 AM
Yes, and anyone old enough to remember will note that Gnome STILL looks like Apples O/S 9....


and people mature enough will sense that this will turn into KDE vs Gnome flamefest. let's just stick to answering the OP's questions.

mmitt
January 28th, 2009, 03:53 AM
Thanks for all the great replies! And im extremely excited to her that i can change the hotkeys to feel like windows. Im definently going to try this tonight (im on an iPod right now.) Im so glad that there are so many nice people here to answer my noobly questions :).

--RESOLVED--

handydan918
January 28th, 2009, 04:05 AM
Relax, no one is flaming anything, or anyone. Don't panic. The moderators aren't afraid to slap me if I need it...

:popcorn:

WestAussieUbu
January 28th, 2009, 04:07 AM
KDE looks more like Windows, but IMO Gnome is far more accessible and flexible than KDE

Maverick1385
January 28th, 2009, 04:12 AM
well, ive been tinkering with ubuntu for about a year now (using wubi) but this is the first time ive had ubuntu as my main OS (about 2 months now) and the differences with Windows is quite refreshing.

I guess that that is also the reason why I shifted to Ubuntu, to experience something new. GNOME is definitely different and I love it.

Gotaro
January 28th, 2009, 04:40 AM
I'm a newb, too, but I agree that KDE is more like Windows initially. I actually prefer it over Windows after getting used to it. The only complaint I have is the difficulty of actually achieving the look you want.. Often many themes have various ways of installing with varying levels of difficulty, and I typically find that if they don't install very easily (like if I'm supposed to compile from source), they don't work. Also, for a desktop theme in KDE (right click->Appearance Settings), I suggest Arezzo for a Vista-like taskbar. (You'll also want to enable transparency, in System Settings->Desktop, so it looks like glass.)

Not to hijack your thread, but does anyone know if someone who instead chose to install Kubuntu can also get Gnome installed?

snova
January 28th, 2009, 04:43 AM
Not to hijack your thread, but does anyone know if someone who instead chose to install Kubuntu can also get Gnome installed?

http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/gnome

Great site. ;) Poke around.

mmitt
January 29th, 2009, 03:24 AM
Great... I have a new question. I have KDE 4.1 now from a fresh kubuntu install, and how can I upgrade to 4.2? I'm running system updates right now... And what are yall's favorite applications on KDE that aren't included with kubuntu? Thanks guys!

snova
January 29th, 2009, 03:44 AM
Great... I have a new question. I have KDE 4.1 now from a fresh kubuntu install, and how can I upgrade to 4.2? I'm running system updates right now... And what are yall's favorite applications on KDE that aren't included with kubuntu? Thanks guys!

http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2

mmitt
January 29th, 2009, 03:51 AM
http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2
Thanks man it all went smooth. Maybe. I'm worried about this line:

Remove the koffice-data-kde4 package if you have it installed. The current koffice2 packages in the kubuntu-members-kde4 PPA are incompatible with the KDE 4.2 packages since they try to install icons to the same locations.
I didn't know how to do that part, so I skipped it. Will that mess up my computer? I just installed and haven't done anything to Kubuntu yet so unless it comes with kubuntu 8.10 (KDE 4.1), i don't have it. Thanks!

snova
January 29th, 2009, 04:12 AM
I didn't know how to do that part, so I skipped it. Will that mess up my computer? I just installed and haven't done anything to Kubuntu yet so unless it comes with kubuntu 8.10 (KDE 4.1), i don't have it. Thanks!

Interesting. I had some problems during installation, this was probably the cause of it. It just means that if you enable this repo and upgrade, but also have the kubuntu-members-kde4 repo enabled (and certain packages installed from it), packages will conflict.

If you just installed, you probably don't have it enabled, so don't worry. And if it all went smoothly, then we already know there's nothing wrong- you'd know.

---

And on a completely unrelated note, this is my thousandth post. :D

kansasnoob
January 29th, 2009, 04:23 AM
KDE looks more like Windows, but IMO Gnome is far more accessible and flexible than KDE

+1!

I totally prefer Gnome/Ubuntu!

Now, I didn't read every response but if you want a freebie that's easy to transition to from Win I'd look at Linux Mint. It's based on Ubuntu and it's relatively secure and stable.

I like Ubuntu because I can sooooo easily edit the menu and the "panels" (aka: toolbars).

epswinde
January 29th, 2009, 04:25 AM
And what are yall's favorite applications on KDE that aren't included with kubuntu? Thanks guys!

basket -- its a lovely little note taking utility, not unlike M$ onenote
soundKonverter -- good for converting .flac to .mp3, etc
Firefox -- it may be included now, but i think i had to install it when i first upgraded to 8.10. that said, konqueror is waaay faster in kde, and handles most websites just swimmingly

utnubuuser
January 29th, 2009, 04:36 AM
I found Gnome easy to transition to. Neither is Windowish.

mmitt
January 29th, 2009, 05:09 AM
Interesting. I had some problems during installation, this was probably the cause of it. It just means that if you enable this repo and upgrade, but also have the kubuntu-members-kde4 repo enabled (and certain packages installed from it), packages will conflict.

If you just installed, you probably don't have it enabled, so don't worry. And if it all went smoothly, then we already know there's nothing wrong- you'd know.

---

And on a completely unrelated note, this is my thousandth post. :D
Congrats on 1000! And I have been noticing some weird color switch thing for like a tenth of a second when I open the menu thing at the bottom right. I'm being paranoid I'm sure, but can I get rid of it now?

mmitt
January 29th, 2009, 05:11 AM
basket -- its a lovely little note taking utility, not unlike M$ onenote
soundKonverter -- good for converting .flac to .mp3, etc
Firefox -- it may be included now, but i think i had to install it when i first upgraded to 8.10. that said, konqueror is waaay faster in kde, and handles most websites just swimmingly
I'm gonna try basket right now. Not sure about soundKonverter yet, I'll get it if I need it. And yeah, Konqueror is a pretty awesome Web Browser. Do you know if ThunderBird works on KDE? (Kmail isn't compatible with aol.)

mmitt
January 29th, 2009, 05:12 AM
I found Gnome easy to transition to. Neither is Windowish.
I don't know now... I'm thinking KDE is a shiny, less GUI, more stable Windows. Of course with Ubuntu, the OS is nothing like Windows or OS X.

BDNiner
January 29th, 2009, 08:52 PM
http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2

Great I will give this a try when i get back home. I have been itching to try 4.2 for a while now. I guess my trial of elightenment will have to wait for a little while.

Gotaro
January 29th, 2009, 09:15 PM
Congrats on 1000! And I have been noticing some weird color switch thing for like a tenth of a second when I open the menu thing at the bottom right. I'm being paranoid I'm sure, but can I get rid of it now?
I have this same problem.. Here (http://forum.kde.org/objects-render-distorted-before-appearing-t-29055.html) is my post about it at KDE forums. No responses, yet.. (Heh..) It definitely would help if you felt motivated to reply in that topic and confirm to have the same problem! :P

Do you know if ThunderBird works on KDE? (Kmail isn't compatible with aol.)
Of course it works on KDE! :P I don't know all about what isn't compatible with Gnome vs KDE, but if it doesn't interact with/control the desktop environment, you DO know it will work on either. I use FF/Thunderbird instead of Konqueror/KMail. To be honest, I don't know why there are different programs bundled in KDE and Gnome. It seems like whichever is superior should be bundled with everything.. Is Gedit better than Kate? Well, then why would I ever want Kate? And vis versa.. I just don't understand the logic behind the way things are now.

egalvan
January 29th, 2009, 09:41 PM
To be honest, I don't know why there are different programs bundled in KDE and Gnome. It seems like whichever is superior should be bundled with everything.. Is Gedit better than Kate? Well, then why would I ever want Kate? And vis versa.. I just don't understand the logic behind the way things are now.

Because what is "better" for you may not be "better" for others... :)

And what is better for one type of text editing may not be better for another...

Choice is the reason these things happen...

Gnome developers prefer Gedit.
KDE folks prefer Kate.

I use both, and others... Mousepad, for instance... vim, for another.

And I have Gnome and KDE and XFCE installed...

You get to pick and CHOOSE what works for YOU...

ErnestG

lazyart
January 29th, 2009, 09:52 PM
Also, some apps are made for Gnome and some for KDE. You can almost always tell the KDE apps because they often start with the letter K or have a capitalized K in it somewhere.

You can run Gnome apps in KDE and vice versa. However this loads in a bunch of libraries to support just that app. The Gnome desktop will already be running most (if not all of those libraries) and KDE will be running it's own set. When you mix they still work, though occasionally some things are a bit off.

That being said, I love amaroK on my Gnome desktop.

mmitt
January 29th, 2009, 11:22 PM
I have this same problem.. Here (http://forum.kde.org/objects-render-distorted-before-appearing-t-29055.html) is my post about it at KDE forums. No responses, yet.. (Heh..) It definitely would help if you felt motivated to reply in that topic and confirm to have the same problem! :P
Ok done. I registered as "karnival" haha. Good name for an app, right?

Of course it works on KDE! :P I don't know all about what isn't compatible with Gnome vs KDE, but if it doesn't interact with/control the desktop environment, you DO know it will work on either. I use FF/Thunderbird instead of Konqueror/KMail. To be honest, I don't know why there are different programs bundled in KDE and Gnome. It seems like whichever is superior should be bundled with everything.. Is Gedit better than Kate? Well, then why would I ever want Kate? And vis versa.. I just don't understand the logic behind the way things are now.
Ok thanks. Well I got ThunderBird to download from Adept, but its not showing up... Did I do something wrong? Or is it not installed in the KickOff Application Launcher by default? Thanks!

Also, some apps are made for Gnome and some for KDE. You can almost always tell the KDE apps because they often start with the letter K or have a capitalized K in it somewhere.

You can run Gnome apps in KDE and vice versa. However this loads in a bunch of libraries to support just that app. The Gnome desktop will already be running most (if not all of those libraries) and KDE will be running it's own set. When you mix they still work, though occasionally some things are a bit off.

That being said, I love amaroK on my Gnome desktop.
Yeah the tip about having the K is good. Kopete, Konquerer, Kmail, etc... So is Gnome another way to say GNU? Thanks.

epswinde
January 30th, 2009, 01:35 AM
thanks. Well I got ThunderBird to download from Adept, but its not showing up... Did I do something wrong? Or is it not installed in the KickOff Application Launcher by default? Thanks!

Yeah the tip about having the K is good. Kopete, Konquerer, Kmail, etc... So is Gnome another way to say GNU? Thanks.

Gnome != GNU. GNU is the toolchain used by linux and many other open source operating systems, including such lovely programs like ls, rm, cd, gcc(the gnu compiler collection), and pretty much every command you can think of. These provide the 'back end' to many of the programs we use on a graphical desktop. When you copy a file from one place to another using dolphin or thunar or nautilus, you can bet it's cp doing the heavy work!

As for the Thunderbird thing, its possible that the package was only configured for a gnome environment, and so lacks the automatic menu addition in KDE. you can start it by hitting alt+F2, and typing thunderbird (then enter). you can also start kmenueditor in this way, and add an entry for yourself! Seriously, the alt+f2 run dialogue is the best thing about kde4 in my opinion. if you don't use it, give it a try! its way faster than sorting through cluttered menus to get to a program that you use often (like speedcrunch)

odd though, I don't have a menu editor in my kmenu! better upgrade to 4.2, lol

mmitt
January 30th, 2009, 02:24 AM
Gnome != GNU. GNU is the toolchain used by linux and many other open source operating systems, including such lovely programs like ls, rm, cd, gcc(the gnu compiler collection), and pretty much every command you can think of. These provide the 'back end' to many of the programs we use on a graphical desktop. When you copy a file from one place to another using dolphin or thunar or nautilus, you can bet it's cp doing the heavy work!

As for the Thunderbird thing, its possible that the package was only configured for a gnome environment, and so lacks the automatic menu addition in KDE. you can start it by hitting alt+F2, and typing thunderbird (then enter). you can also start kmenueditor in this way, and add an entry for yourself! Seriously, the alt+f2 run dialogue is the best thing about kde4 in my opinion. if you don't use it, give it a try! its way faster than sorting through cluttered menus to get to a program that you use often (like speedcrunch)

odd though, I don't have a menu editor in my kmenu! better upgrade to 4.2, lol
WOW! I had no idea that existed... haha! It is awesome though, probably the best thing about KDE IMHO... and for some reason, when I hit "save" in the menu editor without changing anything, it put thunderbird and wine in the correct places automatically... odd but cool. NEW PROBLEM... I can't enable flash in konqueror. I have downloaded the nonfree flash thing and scanned for plugins in konqueror but it still isn't working... Ideas anyone?

Gotaro
January 30th, 2009, 04:53 AM
odd though, I don't have a menu editor in my kmenu! better upgrade to 4.2, lol
Really? I just right click the KMenu button and "Menu Editor" is an option on the list.

WOW! I had no idea that existed... haha! It is awesome though, probably the best thing about KDE IMHO... and for some reason, when I hit "save" in the menu editor without changing anything, it put thunderbird and wine in the correct places automatically... odd but cool. NEW PROBLEM... I can't enable flash in konqueror. I have downloaded the nonfree flash thing and scanned for plugins in konqueror but it still isn't working... Ideas anyone?
For me, I had to restart to get FF and Thunderbird to show up in the KMenu. They're in the Internet category (I'm sure you've found it already.) As far as flash in Konqueror, it's a known bug that a flash movie often shows up as a white box. Here (http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169626) is the bug report on it. Refreshing a couple times usually fixes the problem. If that's not what the problem was, then I don't know what to tell you :(. You should try it in Firefox, though.

Raccoon1400
January 30th, 2009, 05:06 AM
Kde4.2 is harder to configure, at least layout wise.

I prefer gnome because it is much simpler

If you have no issues with gnome, i'd stick with it.

mmitt
January 30th, 2009, 05:14 AM
Really? I just right click the KMenu button and "Menu Editor" is an option on the list.

For me, I had to restart to get FF and Thunderbird to show up in the KMenu. They're in the Internet category (I'm sure you've found it already.) As far as flash in Konqueror, it's a known bug that a flash movie often shows up as a white box. Here (http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169626) is the bug report on it. Refreshing a couple times usually fixes the problem. If that's not what the problem was, then I don't know what to tell you :(. You should try it in Firefox, though.
Yeah its all good now. But not Konqueror. The flash works ok on youtube, but not on facebook, is that strange? It kind of bothers me because everything works perfect on firefox, but the tabs have a strange graphical glitch, i might post it later if i get the chance. I can try theming FF though, maybe that would help.

Kde4.2 is harder to configure, at least layout wise.

I prefer gnome because it is much simpler

If you have no issues with gnome, i'd stick with it.
Thats the problem, Gnome was too simple. I'm a micromanager, I have to have every last detail perfect. KDE 4.2 is just cooler. It's sleek, simple, and smooth (the three S's of ubuntu.) :) Cheers!

Gotaro
January 30th, 2009, 05:25 AM
Yeah its all good now. But not Konqueror. The flash works ok on youtube, but not on facebook, is that strange? It kind of bothers me because everything works perfect on firefox, but the tabs have a strange graphical glitch, i might post it later if i get the chance. I can try theming FF though, maybe that would help.
I have the same glitch with the tabs.. Changing the theme has fixed it for me in the past, but I honestly have had SO much trouble getting Gtk themes to work right, that I just leave it at default now -.-; Most recently I tried the Stylish FF plugin to theme it, but it didn't work right (hovering over the tabs made them go completely and illegibly white. It completely clashed and was very ugly.. If you have better luck, let me know! And SS's are always good! I don't care about being original, I just want a pretty OS! ;)

epswinde
January 30th, 2009, 05:27 AM
Really? I just right click the KMenu button and "Menu Editor" is an option on the list.

Wow. You're totally right... i guess i'm still getting used to kde4...

Some of that FF tabs glitching could be caused by the Qt/gtk+ thing. Check marks (like in gmail) don't render 100% correct, either. I'm fairly certain that its due to the gtk application being drawn by kwin. hopefully they'll get this straightened out soon.

Raccoon1400
January 30th, 2009, 05:44 AM
Thats the problem, Gnome was too simple. I'm a micromanager, I have to have every last detail perfect. KDE 4.2 is just cooler. It's sleek, simple, and smooth (the three S's of ubuntu.) :) Cheers!

with kde 4.2, you can't change much in the layout of the panel
I have not yet found a way to:
move items around on the panel
change the colour/size of the panel
(if any of these are possible, I'm interested in how)

SunnyRabbiera
January 30th, 2009, 05:49 AM
Well truth be told if you want an OS that looks like windows, then use windows.
The thing is that both KDE and gnome offer the same features as windows does: a menu, a taskbar, a clock, a quick launcher etc.
Both KDE and gnome can be made to look and act like windows but really only windows is windows...
Me i prefer gnome at this point, KDE 4 still has a long way to go and it seems the old KDE3 is being forced out.

Gotaro
January 30th, 2009, 05:52 AM
with kde 4.2, you can't change much in the layout of the panel
I have not yet found a way to:
move items around on the panel
change the colour/size of the panel
(if any of these are possible, I'm interested in how)
On the very right of the panel, you'll see a teardrop-looking icon. Click that, and you can edit all of the things you mentioned :)
--Edit--
Everything you mentioned, except for the color, of course.. :P The only advice I can give for that one is to right click the desktop -> Appearance Settings and change the desktop theme.

Raccoon1400
January 30th, 2009, 05:57 AM
On the very right of the panel, you'll see a teardrop-looking icon. Click that, and you can edit all of the things you mentioned :)

Thanks, I'll have to check that out

And since you can install both kde and gnome at the same time, do that and try both until you decide what's best

SunnyRabbiera
January 30th, 2009, 05:57 AM
On the very right of the panel, you'll see a teardrop-looking icon. Click that, and you can edit all of the things you mentioned :)

Just keep in mind there are not many themes for kde4 right now, its still very new though the next few months I see an increase in kde4 use as KDE 4.2 is pretty decent though its still not the greatest...
Its close enough though :D

doorknob60
January 30th, 2009, 06:10 AM
Here's a guide that fixed Flash problems in Konqueror for me. No guarantess it will work for you though, and libflashplugin.so is probably installed somewhere else, so make sure you find out where it is and edit the command accordingly. http://mikearthur.co.uk/2007/12/konqueror-with-latest-adobe-flash-howto/

Gotaro
January 30th, 2009, 06:12 AM
Just keep in mind there are not many themes for kde4 right now, its still very new though the next few months I see an increase in kde4 use as KDE 4.2 is pretty decent though its still not the greatest...
Its close enough though :D
OMG I hope so! Lol.. If any artists are reading this, I'm BEGGING you to make a glassy (or anything new and refreshing) KWin native window decoration, and a complementary style!

Piraja
January 30th, 2009, 06:38 AM
If you are going to have both kde and gnome installed I would recommed that you install the kmenu-gnome package and the gnome-menu-extended package. Having them both installed tends to mess up each other's menus.
OT: I like the ambiguity of "them" here ("I would recommed that you install the kmenu-gnome package and the gnome-menu-extended package. Having them both installed tends to mess up each other's menus"), because it is telling of the natural language "syntax errors" we all make all the time... and perhaps also of the perils we all desktop-tweakers must live with (having both Gnome and KDE might be a case in point: you must be prepared to do some tweaking, I suppose...) I perso gave up trying KDE because it did not run very well on my low-end desktop machine... and I have not bothered to try it out on newer hardware either, but went instead to the other direction and installed Openbox.

Sorry for this philosophising and language-policing and messing up other people's menus (in a figurative sense) by such off-topic remarks. Good luck!

Messyhair42
January 30th, 2009, 11:55 PM
i wanted to try kde out so after i found this thread i tried it. but after i log into the (now) kubuntu machine i'm left with an open terminal window and no desktop. if i exit from the terminal window i'm back at the login screen. all i could do for now was to switch to gnome. i want to know what i can do, i would also like to know how to switch the default desktop back to gnome.

Piraja
January 31st, 2009, 11:51 PM
i would also like to know how to switch the default desktop back to gnome.
Well, I think you can just uninstall the KDE or Kubuntu package you installed (if you installed the kubuntu-desktop package: sudo apt-get --purge remove kubuntu-desktop) or revert to "pure Gnome" as in the Psychocats tutorial (see my sig for the Psychocats page and find "Pure Gnome" in the left-hand column; but notice that this procedure will remove all KDE and XFCE apps too that you might have installed in Gnome).

Also, you can change the default session in the (GDM) login screen by hitting the F10 key after typing your password. The login dialog will ask you if you would like to make the Gnome session your default.