Politically oriented material policies - ubuntu forums & technology.

[TDFlanders]

Hi there,

I have noted that there is no section on the Ubuntu forums about politics (left or right wing), activism and legal repercussions. I think that is the way it should be as Ubuntu is supposed to be about open source software and not about politics, although maybe with the "marginal" reference towards the Bantu word of "humanity". (This could maybe leave the ordinary user to conclude that philosophical misanthropists are not welcome to use Ubuntu, and therefore be a discriminatory name. hihi, just kidding :D) I do believe that this is also the official point of view from the Ubuntu community and Canonical, correct me if I am wrong please.

However, if we are to assume that political oppression in this world exists, we would naturally conclude that Linux software is the most feasible alternative for political activists, who also exist in this world.

So my question is: how to pose a question that is technically oriented, but has at its origin that the person who poses the question believes/knows that his posts on a third party forum are being deleted because of an oppressive regime pulling strings.

First of all:

Which sub forum would be most suitable for such a question. Or does this depend on the nature of the question.

Second:

If a moderator or another user asks you about the underlying motives for your question, can you just refer to the code of conduct / terms of use, and reply that you cannot answer that question?

Example Given:

I have reason to believe that my registered mail is being systematically held back by government agency X because of my history Y. It is however third party Z that has abused my history Y through its connections with government agency X, and now profits from this under the form of protection from legal liability because of my inability to inform any third party or make legal claims via registered mail. Also the forum M deleted the Tracker Number of my registered mail N to addressee O. To the best of my knowledge it is not illegal in nation F to post Tracker Numbers of any registered mail items on line. Therefore I am left to conclude that government agency X has contacted forum M and forced them to delete my posts through blackmail.

* Is there a way to post the Tracker Number of this mail item N on a forum where it will not be deleted?

* Is there a way to send registered emails? (I can use Firegpg, but that does not mean that the addressee cannot deny ever having received this item, nor can I prove I have ever send it)

* Is there an email address I can obtain that cannot be blocked by government agency X?

* I have forwarded all sensitive emails from my account A to my account B. Can I somehow, based on IP and DNS address or traceroute make sure that the evidence of these emails having been sent is incontrovertible in state B?

Conclusion:

As far as I know there do not exist any forums worldwide that half an absolute free posting policy, as freedom of speech and its restrictions are interpreted differently in different nations. Following from this, no reference to any specific information site can be given. Therefore the natural question from any moderator towards the user would be to provide more info. This is were a conflict with the code of conduct may occur.

Another issue may obviously be that your post remains unanswered, as that is the case for many posts on the Ubuntu forums, for a variety of reasons.

In the scope of this: when it is OK for an Ubuntu user to resubmit an unanswered post, if at all. If so, after which time period and only under a modified form or not?

Is there a specific guide line towards which posts are deleted or is this done "on the feel"? Likewise, is there a specific policy towards which accounts or deleted and which IP addresses are blocked (e.g. first offense, nature of offense ...)?

Thanks a lot,

Thomas

[lisati]

Two of the BIG areas that can cause problems are religion and politics - in the past I've seen threads that have become quite heated where forum members have disagreed. This is why the code of conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy) has sections about being respectful.

[Joeb454]

In general, Politics & Religion are not permitted. Though the description of the Community Cafe (which I see is where you posted this thread) reads The Community Chat area is for lighthearted and enjoyable discussions, like you might find around a water cooler at work.

Almost any non-tech-support topic may be discussed here. Discussions on religion and politics are not allowed, except for politics directly related to free and open source issues. Any topic or discussion that causes problems or drama will be closed. This area is intended for fun and community building, not arguments. Please take those elsewhere. Thanks!

I bolded/underlined the part I think is relevant to your question :)

[Bölvaður]

There are forums which you can post about anything without being hunt down even though your thread might get closed. So I guess you can take a walk on the Google-lane and see if you can find a forum you like for political discussion. Religious forums are not as liberal.. but perhaps there may exist one, even though I have doubts about it.

[QUOTE=Joeb454;6621508Any topic or discussion that causes problems or drama will be closed[/QUOTE]

Does that mean I can make a poll about what people do in the shower? Like use shampoo, shave, brush their teeth and urinate? Or is that out of the line?

[TDFlanders]

LOL!

http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy:

"This is YOUR community. Most people have a common sense feel for what is and what is not appropriate in our forums and you folks generally do a great job of policing yourselves. We do, however, need to have a few set policies for everyone to refer to when the need arises."

I must say I am in general very positive about this code of conduct. Which is due to my hypercritical personality rather remarkable. It is clear and comprises nearly everything.

A few points of (hopefully constructive) criticism nevertheless:


"If you were to continue to break this code of conduct your account would be reviewed and you could be banned. It is the sole discretion of the forum resolution team (currently the administrators) to ban violating accounts. As of March 13, 2007, accounts will not be deleted, although email addresses can be removed from accounts by request if the account is not going to be used any longer."

In my country of birth this would be illegal, as you change the terms of service after the user has agreed to them. If the user does no longer agrees to the new terms of service, he should have the right to have his account completely removed. I do not know about the English legal attitude towards this and as long as nobody actually asks you through registered mail I doubt it is very relevant indeed.

"It should be noted that, like all things, this code of conduct will continue to change and evolve with constructive feedback from users and from experience. It is our hope that these policies will create open, honest, and civil discussion. As always, we welcome feedback about any concerns that you may have so feel free to post in the forum feedback section of the forums. It is the users' responsibility to check this page for updates."

Where should the user find this link? For instance: "http://ubuntuforums.org/index"? Also: is it to be found under translated form on all foreign language forums?

"... "I've had it with Ubuntu!" "I bet you can't solve my problem" or "Ubuntu sucks". Your problem is important, but ..."

Please pardon yourself to the end user of the legal disclaimer for using etymologically sexually oriented language in your description of what is acceptable and not on Ubuntu forums; or try to refer to any unwanted activities in a more descriptive manner, rather than quoting.

"RTFM/I hate linux/I hate Microsoft threads:
As the community has grown these types of threads seem to be more prominent. We need to make sure we can try to steer these conversations into a positive discussion, however in many cases these threads will only end in hurt feelings and will be locked. If the thread cannot be steered into a clean discussion the staff member who locks it needs to be fully supported by staff."

Please consider alternatives for abbreviations of profanities. For instance: GIYF, UTSL; but not: STFW, JFGI.

"Replies to questions that ask for help running legitimate software (albeit closed source or proprietary) that do not answer the question, but instead instruct the user that they should not be using that software on the grounds that it is not free serve only to frustrate and confuse the user and will be removed to make room for answers to the question the user asked at the moderator's discretion."

Call me frustrated but: commas anyone?

Also (this is technical):

"Please remember to do things the Ubuntu way. There are always more than one solution to a problem, choose the one you think will be the easiest for the user. Automatic package installation (using Synaptic, Aptitude, or apt) over manual installation. DEB over source. Please never instruct users to do anything that might break their system, this includes using --force and -ignore-depends when installing a DEB. Try to think as a green user and choose the simplest solution."

I usually use this command in a root terminal for updating:

root@thomas-laptop:/home/thomas# dpkg --configure -a ; apt-get install -f ; apt-get -fmy --force-yes --fix-missing update ; apt-get -fmy --force-yes --fix-missing upgrade ; apt-get -fmy --force-yes --fix-missing dist-upgrade ; dpkg --configure -a ; apt-get install -f ; apt-get -fmy --force-yes --fix-missing update ; apt-get -fmy --force-yes --fix-missing upgrade ; apt-get -fmy --force-yes --fix-missing dist-upgrade

As I am still relatively green: Is this a stupid man's solution for updating without having to click yes 500 times, then fetch a bowl of soup and find "Please enter: password". Please tell me, but refrain from profanities and flame wars and such (I alone am best).

Does that mean I can make a poll about what people do in the shower? Like use shampoo, shave, brush their teeth and urinate? Or is that out of the line?

I do not think the previous statement is dramatic or problematic. Yet I do not feel a need to debate on excreting bodily fluids under the shower. I do encourage you to so however, as this obviously is a Nordic tradition and it important to advocate Ubuntu grassroots-wise (or 'snow, ice and molten rock'-wise?). Obviously it is my own freedom not to read a topic involving such practices, but I feel the user should post these in a separate topic and preferably in Nyorsk.

PS: I advice strongly against shaving under the shower, as this may clog the drain. Only when doing it habitually (daily) indeed should it be considered, at your own risk!

PPS: Pardon the Belgian Wafer, it is a custom.

PPPS: I will now post some more questions, taking into consideration what I have learned in this thread, on the sub forums deemed most suitable by me. I will link back to this post both ways, as I am a slow student. When observing any violations please spank me gently and throw me into jail, but preferably do not delete my account prior to further notice, it is more "Ubuntu".

Cheers,

Thomas

[Joeb454]

Does that mean I can make a poll about what people do in the shower? Like use shampoo, shave, brush their teeth and urinate? Or is that out of the line?

If you really wanted to then I guess so. As long as it was light-hearted.

I can see that getting closed at some point, because I can almost guarantee that somebody would drag it downhill

[cariboo907]

The way I see it this is an Ubuntu technical support forum, politics and religion have no place here.

Jim

[Sealbhach]

OMGPP!!!

http://grubbn.org/omgpp/


.

[ticopelp]

I don't... wait... what?

[butlins]

yeh not having politics or religion on the forums is a breath of fresh air :popcorn:

[hanzomon4]

I liked the backyard.. It was cool hearing everyone's take on the world and made this place more human. I debate a lot so my feelings don't get hurt easily but I can see people getting very offended when faced with an opposing view. This happens around the world of software too, in fact any group of people discussing something they have a passion for will fall out. Seen it in the Martial Arts world, the Art world, the Music world, even in the Children rights advocacy world(it gets really ugly there). It just comes with the human sauce boss.

But hey! This ain't my pot to **** in... I'm just visiting

:popcorn:

[etnlIcarus]

Two of the BIG areas that can cause problems are religion and politics - in the past I've seen threads that have become quite heated where forum members have disagreed. This is why the code of conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy) has sections about being respectful.

I dunno. I manage to get in arguments and flame-wars just fine without politics and religion.

The only thing the, "no politics", rule manages to do is stifle other subjects which verge on political territory (for instance, just yesterday someone I was chatting with decided to take our convo to PM in an act of self-censorship, because he was afraid discussing the political ideology behind Star Trek would result in the Star Trek thread being locked).

[dmizer]

[snip]A few points of (hopefully constructive) criticism nevertheless:[snip]

Constructive criticism doesn't generally start off with
LOL!
Either way, thank you for your input.

These are private forums, and we do indeed (as with any public accommodation) have the right to refuse service to anyone within certain limits. Limits include: refusing service based on discriminatory reasons and other equal protection rights.

Banning someone from the forums does not infringe on anyone's right to free speech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech#Limitations_on_freedom_of_speech ).

That said, unlike most (all?) other forums, this community has a process by which they can contest actions taken by the forum staff. There is also a process by which you can contribute to forum policy.

If you sincerely desire to become active in forum politics, I suggest you start here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumsGovernance (this link is available under "Forum council").

Thanks again! :)

[TDFlanders]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6667518#post6667518

Thanks for the purple ponies link. Now I can finally proof I am better than everyone else!

See you soon,

Thomas