I'm Trying To Make Something Very Light

[andras artois]

Not sure if this is the right section....

I'm looking to Make an Arch install disk with Openbox or Fluxbox already installed and a few programs. I also want Openbox or Fluxbox to stay configured a certain way on the install disk.

It's for a very old IBM laptop.

How would I go about doing this?

Which is better? Openbox or Fluxbox?

Which is lighter? Openbox or Fluxbox?

Is it relatively easy to customise Openbox?

Also I need some advice on some lightweight programs. So far I have:
Web Browser - Midori
IM Client (Must support MSN) - Pidgin
Word Processor - Abiword
Notepad - Leafpad
Calculator - Qalculate! (I find it very useful sometimes)
Sound Recorder - (Something similar or the same as the sound recorder included with Ubuntu, I don't know the name of it but lighter if possible.)
Media Player - VLC
Basic Image Editing Program - MTpaint
Basic Image Viewer - GQView

Thanks

[benerivo]

Have you seen the larch (http://larch.berlios.de/doc/index.html) program? I've never used it, but it should get you what you want. For the notepad program, use leafpad, and for image editing use mtpaint.

[cardinals_fan]

How would I go about doing this?
http://larch.berlios.de/doc5.2/larch_live_system.html

Which is better? Openbox or Fluxbox?
They are both good. I prefer Fluxbox.

Which is lighter? Openbox or Fluxbox?
They are very similar. You might like this (http://incise.org/not-so-tiny-window-managers.html).

Is it relatively easy to customise Openbox?
I would say yes; why don't you try it and see?

Also I need some advice on some lightweight programs. So far I have:
Web Browser - Midori
IM Client -
Word Processor - Abiword
Notepad -
Calculator -
Microphone Recorder -
Media Player - VLC
Basic Image Editing Program -

Web Browser - I would be uncomfortable with Midori. It will be great, but it's just not very stable now. Why not try Kazehakase?
IM Client - You may be stuck with Pidgin here
Word Processor - Abiword
Notepad - Leafpad is a light graphical editor. Xpad does sticky notes.
Calculator - Galculator
Microphone Recorder - ?
Media Player - VLC, but I prefer Mplayer
Basic Image Editing Program - Mtpaint. Also consider including GQView, a great viewer/organizer.

[andras artois]

Thank you for the help so far.

A bit of an explanation so far:
This is more of a project for me, I want to try to make a very lightweight but still functional for Windows users casual use. It's for a very old laptop (running windows 98 when it was new). I'm not a very experienced user but I want to try and at least get this right. I've used Ubuntu for the last 2-4 years and mostly started to understand terminal commands and what happens under the graphical interface in the last 6-12 months.

I've been doing a bit of research and decided on Openbox.
I also still want to use Midori because although it's unstable it's INCREDIBLY fast and by the time I actually finish this and get a disk ready it'll probably be in beta stages.

I also want to know how to actually compile it all as usable operating system that's installable and/or runable from a liveCD.

I like step by step idiot instructions.

I've updated my first post slightly.

[cardinals_fan]

Thank you for the help so far.

A bit of an explanation so far:
This is more of a project for me, I want to try to make a very lightweight but still functional for Windows users casual use. It's for a very old laptop (running windows 98 when it was new). I'm not a very experienced user but I want to try and at least get this right. I've used Ubuntu for the last 2-4 years and mostly started to understand terminal commands and what happens under the graphical interface in the last 6-12 months.

I've been doing a bit of research and decided on Openbox.
I also still want to use Midori because although it's unstable it's INCREDIBLY fast and by the time I actually finish this and get a disk ready it'll probably be in beta stages.

I also want to know how to actually compile it all as usable operating system that's installable and/or runable from a liveCD.

I like step by step idiot instructions.

I've updated my first post slightly.
Read the larch documentation in benerivo's post above.

[andras artois]

Thank you. It seems to be exactly what I want. I read a bit last night but I was pretty tired and didn't quite realise what it was.

Thanks!

[cmay]

i use openbox as it is used on crunch bang linux which i use for my asus eeepc and i like the windows manager a lot. there is this configuration tool http://icculus.org/openbox/index.php/ObConf:About but i cant find the obmenu package in ubuntu or debian resporitories. that is a little gui for editing your menus which appear when you right click and its very usefull . i just wanted to post this if you did not know about the obmenu package.
good luck

[chucky chuckaluck]

if you want to go light, i'd take feh over gqview (neither one is going to break you, though). feh can display images in a variety of ways and can also be used to set your wallpaper in both openbox and fussbox.

[cardinals_fan]

if you want to go light, i'd take feh over gqview (neither one is going to break you, though). feh can display images in a variety of ways and can also be used to set your wallpaper in both openbox and fussbox.
Feh doesn't have the sophisticated tagging abilities of GQView.

[andras artois]

Having a look at Feh's features I'd prefer it over GQView.

Thank you chucky!

I've just started properly reading into lArch as I've been a bit busy with some college work.

[Hallvor]

Instead of Pidgin I suggest you try centericq (it does support several protocols and not just icq). It should be a lot lighter, but has less features and is a little harder to use. But if you aim for something very light, you may have more advanced users who won`t think of it as a problem.

On the more heavy side there is Empathy. I also tried a different IM client that I can`t remember the name of. It even had a 1337-translator for 1337 wannabes. :)

Edit: I remember the name now. It is called Ayttm.

[smartboyathome]

Having a look at Feh's features I'd prefer it over GQView.

Thank you chucky!

I've just started properly reading into lArch as I've been a bit busy with some college work.

There is also archiso (what I am trying now) instead of larch. I have been trying to build the Arch version of Maryan Linux for some time (in my spare time of course), and Larch doesn't seem to work too well, as X crashes on startup.

[cardinals_fan]

Instead of Pidgin I suggest you try centericq (it does support several protocols and not just icq). It should be a lot lighter, but has less features and is a little harder to use. But if you aim for something very light, you may have more advanced users who won`t think of it as a problem.

On the more heavy side there is Empathy. I also tried a different IM client that I can`t remember the name of. It even had a 1337-translator for 1337 wannabes. :)

Edit: I remember the name now. It is called Ayttm.
Thank you for both of those. I've been looking for Pidgin replacements :)

[kerry_s]

hey what model ibm?
i'm playing around with arch on a ibm t20 700mhz 128mb ram.
it has 256mb ram but i just got hit with that bad memory slot problem, so 1 of the slots is dead.

just did a fresh install yesterday, since i now have to think lighter than the 256mb i had before.

i haven't even bothered to install a wm yet, i'm using the twm that comes with xorg.

[andras artois]

hey what model ibm?
i'm playing around with arch on a ibm t20 700mhz 128mb ram.
it has 256mb ram but i just got hit with that bad memory slot problem, so 1 of the slots is dead.

just did a fresh install yesterday, since i now have to think lighter than the 256mb i had before.

i haven't even bothered to install a wm yet, i'm using the twm that comes with xorg.

Today is the first time in about 4-6 years that this laptop has booted. IBM Thinkpad 390 apparently. Intel MMX 233MHZ processor, 160MB RAM, 2GB HD, 1GB HD, 1 USB slot, 2x PCMIA slots and Windows 98.

So far DSL has just froze trying to boot up.

Haha.

How much HD space does arch need to install?

[kerry_s]

i've got a very basic install it's about 900mb:
attached is installed list.

[init1]

hey what model ibm?
i'm playing around with arch on a ibm t20 700mhz 128mb ram.
it has 256mb ram but i just got hit with that bad memory slot problem, so 1 of the slots is dead.

just did a fresh install yesterday, since i now have to think lighter than the 256mb i had before.

i haven't even bothered to install a wm yet, i'm using the twm that comes with xorg.
Ha yeah, twm is very fun to mess around with. It's extremely customizable.

[cardinals_fan]

Ha yeah, twm is very fun to mess around with if you're a total masochist. It's extremely customizable.
Fixed that for you ;)

A week of twm on NetBSD cured me of that particular need.

[kerry_s]

Ha yeah, twm is very fun to mess around with. It's extremely customizable.

yeah, i haven't used it in along while. it's still very fast once you set it up.
the man pages are a pain to decipher though.
i set it up as a right click system(button 3), you know right click desktop for menu, i left buttons 1 & 2 empty cause i'm just not use to using them. i also made it so i can close the window on right click.
the install is only a day old, just getting started.

ps: keyboard shortcuts are->
alt+f2 = xterm
print = scrot screen shot
ctrl+home = pcmanfm

thats all i did for now.

attached if you want to try it.

[kerry_s]

Fixed that for you ;)

A week of twm on NetBSD cured me of that particular need.

:lolflag:

[andras artois]

After getting everything that I could possibly want off the laptop I threw the Arch disk in anddd guess what? FAIL. Arch doesnt support anything below i6whatever.

So I need some advice on a new system to work with.
Minimal as possible please.

Would Zenwalk with Openbox and Thunar be okay?

[Hallvor]

After getting everything that I could possibly want off the laptop I threw the Arch disk in anddd guess what? FAIL. Arch doesnt support anything below i6whatever.

So I need some advice on a new system to work with.
Minimal as possible please.

Would Zenwalk with Openbox and Thunar be okay?

How about TinyMe? It uses Openbox, is a rolling release like Arch and is very easy to use. It comes in two versions, the 200 MB 2008.0, which has a few applications installed and the 150 MB 2008.1 droplet, where you only get a very basic desktop where you can add what you want through Synaptic.

[cardinals_fan]

After getting everything that I could possibly want off the laptop I threw the Arch disk in anddd guess what? FAIL. Arch doesnt support anything below i6whatever.

So I need some advice on a new system to work with.
Minimal as possible please.

Would Zenwalk with Openbox and Thunar be okay?
If you do Zenwalk, make sure you download Zenwalk Core, which is CLI-only and lets you build up from a clean slate.

Otherwise, I recommend Slackware. Clean, powerful, and totally controllable.

NetBSD is very good, if you want something a bit different.

SliTaz is not very manual or CLI-only, but it offers almost unlimited possibilities if you are willing to work and it is extremely light on resources. The documentation is great.

[andras artois]

Well so far Zenwalk with Xfce is working fine on it and thats from a liveCD. I'm going to install it and see how it goes from there although TinyMe does sound quite tempting.....

EDIT: @cardinals_fan: I'll look into that, I was just thinking of installing the xfce version and stripping it out but there's a lot of unwanted rubbish on it...

[cardinals_fan]

Regarding TinyMe, I wouldn't recommend it for this purpose. It is a fine OS, but is more geared towards out-of-the-box usage and autoconfiguration than manual customization. It provides a rather full slate, rather than a blank one.

[SomeGuyDude]

Regarden Open- v Fluxbox, isn't something up with Flux's development lately? I was under the impression Flux was kinda on the way out. One reason I have yet to really give it a go.

[andras artois]

Just installing core Zenwalk now. I'm going to use Fluxbox instead of Openbox because it seems to be better supported in Zenwalk than Openbox.

Thank you for the help. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[cardinals_fan]

Regarden Open- v Fluxbox, isn't something up with Flux's development lately? I was under the impression Flux was kinda on the way out. One reason I have yet to really give it a go.
What's left to add? Fluxbox is essentially complete as is.

Anyway, I see Pekwm as the new happening *box. It's evolving very quickly.
Just installing core Zenwalk now. I'm going to use Fluxbox instead of Openbox because it seems to be better supported in Zenwalk than Openbox.

Thank you for the help. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Good luck.

[Hallvor]

Regarding TinyMe, I wouldn't recommend it for this purpose. It is a fine OS, but is more geared towards out-of-the-box usage and autoconfiguration than manual customization. It provides a rather full slate, rather than a blank one.

There is not much out of the box usage in TinyMe 2008.1 Droplet. The 2008.0 version is another story. 2008.1, on the other hand, contains:


* SLiM to log you in
* PCLinuxOS Control Center to configure your system
* Synaptic to install programs and keep your system up to date
* PCManFM, file manager and manages the desktop
* TinyCC, configures the desktop
* Openbox, a window manager
* LXPanel keeps track of the windows you have open
* Nano, a command-line text editor

and that`s it.

[SomeGuyDude]

What's left to add? Fluxbox is essentially complete as is.

Anyway, I see Pekwm as the new happening *box. It's evolving very quickly.

Good luck.

Well, strictly speaking, EVERY environment/manager is working well enough now, but that doesn't mean I like the idea of the devs just brushing their hands off and walking away. I can't think of anything OB needs, but if I read that they were done working on it I'd be might annoyed.

PekWM you say? Hm.

[cardinals_fan]

Well, strictly speaking, EVERY environment/manager is working well enough now, but that doesn't mean I like the idea of the devs just brushing their hands off and walking away. I can't think of anything OB needs, but if I read that they were done working on it I'd be might annoyed.

PekWM you say? Hm.
What would you like to see added to Fluxbox?

/devil's advocate

[snowpine]

What would you like to see added to Fluxbox?

/devil's advocate

Wobbly windows and a desktop cube. ;)

[cmay]

i repair older computers as a hobby. i never get anything for it but i like to be of some use after i got retired. when i get older computers with below minimum ubuntu specs i use a debian custom install and hope i can do it with gnome. as i am a happy gnome user. but if gnome is too heavy i use openbox or blackbox or flux. i just started using jwm. which is a little hard to get used to since i always have only one top panel when using gnome and four desktops to switch between. i have yet to find out how to get the jwm panel on the top. but i see that jwm is more light than both flux and openbox. and i also started to use as many terminal based programs as i can manage. if i had a laptop these specs as yours i would go for a debian netinstall and use either openbox or jwm as desktop manager.
good luck with the project.

[SomeGuyDude]

What would you like to see added to Fluxbox?

/devil's advocate

What would I like to see added to OpenBox? I can't think of anything there either. I just like to know that the project is always active. You can't predict tomorrow, so in principle I object to systems where a developer thinks it's "done".

[sertse]

http://www.fluxbox.org/news/

Fluxbox is still alive, I assume things have just slowed down a bit because as some have said, most basic functionality is already done.

I personally like fluxbox because it both light while being "the only thing you need" without being a DE. My this I mean having the other two basic components, panel, system tray as well as the window manager

Of course, there are other who like their customisation more than me, and only need something to manage windows; it's good there's choice for everyone

[andras artois]

After all this I've decided to try something else.

If I installed Ubuntu on a different partition and added Openbox, PCManFM, took out GNOME etc would I then be able to compress this into an .ISO file and burn it to disk and install it on this laptop?

Sorry for all this faffing around and thank you for all the help, I really appreciate it!

[snowpine]

After all this I've decided to try something else.

If I installed Ubuntu on a different partition and added Openbox, PCManFM, took out GNOME etc would I then be able to compress this into an .ISO file and burn it to disk and install it on this laptop?

Sorry for all this faffing around and thank you for all the help, I really appreciate it!

If you are looking for an Ubuntu distro with Openbox and PCmanfm, check out Crunchbang Linux, available in both Full and Lite versions: http://www.crunchbanglinux.org

[andras artois]

If you are looking for an Ubuntu distro with Openbox and PCmanfm, check out Crunchbang Linux, available in both Full and Lite versions: http://www.crunchbanglinux.org

Already looked at it. It refuses to install on my laptop and it's still bloated compared with what I want on there.

[smartboyathome]

After all this I've decided to try something else.

If I installed Ubuntu on a different partition and added Openbox, PCManFM, took out GNOME etc would I then be able to compress this into an .ISO file and burn it to disk and install it on this laptop?

Sorry for all this faffing around and thank you for all the help, I really appreciate it!

Use the alternate cd to install a command line system, and build up from there. Then use use remastersys to create your livecd. :)

[Sorivenul]

Use the alternate cd to install a command line system, and build up from there. Then use use remastersys to create your livecd. :)
+1. If you want to go about this yourself, since Crunchbang isn't working for you, this is the way to do it, IMO.

[andras artois]

Sounds like a plan, I'll do that then.

Thanks!