The future of Easy Ubuntu

[keyes]

Easy Ubuntu and EasyBreezy are now the same project.
We have created a launchpad project: https://launchpad.net/products/easyubuntu/

Easy Kubuntu will probably go in the new Easy Ubuntu project too.

Easy Ubuntu will be rewrited to use Python and Glade.
I was the main Easy Ubuntu developer before. Now Easy Ubuntu it's a team and you can join us!

More info? #easyubuntu @ irc.freenode.org

Our goals and politics for the next version:
- Always a free and GPLed project
- Very easy to use (my girl friend and my grand mother must be able to run Easy Ubuntu)
- Respect the Ubuntu developers choice (it don't install Amarok if Rhythmbox is the default music player)
- Working with the Ubuntu MOTU and PLF team
- Use subversion, bazaar or cvs
- Redisign the GUI using GTK/Glade
- Allowed to select full categories (like Multimedia) or details (you must be able to don't install mssttcorefonts and JAVA but install RealPlayer)
- Add an option to integrate the QT/KDE apps with GNOME (look'n'feel)
- Add the OpenWengo free voice over IP software
- Add a splashscreen to GRUB

and more


Please join us, you are welcome.

[ember]

I cannot offer programming help (sorry, I have three projects running that already consumes more hours than a day has to offer), but I would be willing to test.
I have VMWare, maybe I can install a fresh breezy into that and provide feedback.

Best,
ember

[gil-galad]

Looks great! I look forward to it. Might I suggest a command line interface also? Might be useful to some people.

ie) easy_ubuntu --no-gui --all

[keyes]

Good idea and propably easy to code.

[gil-galad]

I would try to stay away from adding a whole bunch of repositories. However, adding the universe and multiverse repositories is a must, and perhaps the winehq one as well.

I am not sure if the grub splashscreen is a good idea. On my hard drive, which is ubuntu only, grub just boots up ubuntu without any wait. I don't really want a splashscreen to load. Its a nice option for some people to have, of course, but I don't really see how it benefits usability or adds anything.

[nalmeth]

very good idea
will this be released with dapper possibly?

[humanity_to_others]

Maybe Mark Shuttleworth can give Arnieboy some dollars for his 3 month effort. And I don't want to see an Easy Fedora. Btw thx easyubuntu, arnieboy and gpl.

[robotgeek]

very good idea
will this be released with dapper possibly?

Well, as soon as Dapper comes out, it should be relatively easy to release it for Dapper. However, i don't think we'll be coming out with a release before that.

[az]

I am happy you are using launchpad.

Any chance you can come up with a .deb and would it be a goal to get that into universe?

If that is the case, then you would have to sync with Dapper and follow it so that the deb would be in the dapper repos.

Also easybreezy is release-specific. How about "EasyPeasy" for Dapper?

sudo apt-get install easypeasy


heh heh.

[ember]

Well ... EasyPeasy sounds like some kind of donut ;) ... why not keep the name 'Easy Ubuntu' - I liked it ;)

[az]

I had a brain-papse. I thought it was merged the other way (I dunno why).

My bad.


I hear that you want to make it debian-agnostic and run on all debian-based distros. I think that is fantastic!

[Visceral Monkey]

"Respect the Ubuntu developers choice (it don't install Amarok if Rhythmbox is the default music player)"

Sorry, but this is plain silly and goes against everything that linux stands for. Linux is about user choice. If for some reason you have something that people want included, why not add it? In the above included example (and I assume you use it just as an example), I personally dislike Rhythmbox and prefer Amarok, even in gnome. This isnt about respecting anything or anyone, it's about what apps I prefer to use. By following your logic, nothing should be installed via Easy Ubuntu because it wasnt included in the original distro. Makes no sense.

[robotgeek]

"Respect the Ubuntu developers choice (it don't install Amarok if Rhythmbox is the default music player)"

Sorry, but this is plain silly and goes against everything that linux stands for. Linux is about user choice. If for some reason you have something that people want included, why not add it? In the above included example (and I assume you use it just as an example), I personally dislike Rhythmbox and prefer Amarok, even in gnome. This isnt about respecting anything or anyone, it's about what apps I prefer to use. By following your logic, nothing should be installed via Easy Ubuntu because it wasnt included in the original distro. Makes no sense.

Yes , it is about user choice. However, the aim of Easy Ubuntu is not to install every app available, it is to get your system "usable" as fast as possible. And while, doing so...we want to respect the original choices made by Ubuntu developers. I don't want to rub off the wrong way, but if you have other applications which you want to try out, you can always install it from synaptic/adept.

[aysiu]

I agree with robotgeek on this one.
Choice doesn't mean mind-reading.
It means you get to choose stuff. If you prefer AmaroK to Rhythmbox, you're one command away from getting it sudo apt-get install amarok No one's stopping you from using it.

[Visceral Monkey]

I agree with robotgeek on this one.
Choice doesn't mean mind-reading.
It means you get to choose stuff. If you prefer AmaroK to Rhythmbox, you're one command away from getting it sudo apt-get install amarok No one's stopping you from using it.

Actually, we totally see eye to eye on this. I'm not saying the project should try to read minds, I'm saying that if a applications is something several people want and have trouble installing, there isnt any reason not to include it just because the original Ubuntu developers didn't put it in. But maybe we are talking at cross purposes here and I'm not understanding the original post.

[keyes]

"Respect the Ubuntu developers choice (it don't install Amarok if Rhythmbox is the default music player)"

Sorry, but this is plain silly and goes against everything that linux stands for. Linux is about user choice. If for some reason you have something that people want included, why not add it? In the above included example (and I assume you use it just as an example), I personally dislike Rhythmbox and prefer Amarok, even in gnome. This isn't about respecting anything or anyone, it's about what apps I prefer to use. By following your logic, nothing should be installed via Easy Ubuntu because it wasnt included in the original distro. Makes no sense.

There is already a tool to install others softwares, this is "gnome-app-install" available in the main menu.
Don't forget that Easy Ubuntu is an Ubuntu tool, it must respect the spirit of the distro. There are some things we are not included in Ubuntu by defaut for license issue and we mus install them because this is needed to have a good multimedia and web experience with Ubuntu.
There are also many optionals settings (unchecked by default) like the DMA, or Num Lock who are needed because improve the usability. But, for me, those settings are only temporarily in Easy Ubuntu and must be included by default.

Installing Amarok and VLC and Xine, and abiword, and koffice and ... will confuse users, take space on the disk and maybe give a bad image of Linux (Amarok is my preferred music player and I always use it even with GNOME but it's not integrated with GNOME: different look'n'feel, drag'n'drop not working, not the same HIG, ...)

A good user or a curious guy can use gnome-app-install or synaptic to try other apps but newbies or users who just want "it's work" mustn't be confused by many apps to do the same thing.

[gil-galad]

Right, gnome-app-install is how you install programs, it is already easy and built into ubuntu. Easy Breezy should be for stuff that is often used yet hard to install -- like restricted codecs.

[keyes]

I agree

[dragonfyre13]

Honestly, the thing that is most annoying for me, is not having a little "update to i586/i686" button. Ubuntu comes stock with i386, and it seems to slow my computers to a crawl. They can't ship multiple kernels on the disk, (It's already full) but you can download them from the repositories. It would be helpful if this updated program would have an option in there that would specify "if Ubuntu is running slowly, and you have a pentium pro, 2, 3, or 4 processor, please check this box" or something.

I've already reccomended this to my dad, (who loves it) but I still have to walk everyone through synaptic or apt-get every time I help them load Ubuntu on thier computers. (To date, I've loaded on 76 copies of ubuntu around the city. What does that say about me? :???: )

[frodon]

Hey keyes, great info !

Will the new easy ubuntu will include an expert mode for advanced users or is it too far from the goal of easyubuntu.
I didn't have any knowledge in python but if you need some perl scripts (for changing some lines in some config files for exemple) don't hesitate to ask, really.

[AgenT]

Ubuntu comes stock with i386, and it seems to slow my computers to a crawl
If this is really true and you are not exaggerating, then the kernel is probably not at fault. It most likely means you have something misconfigured. Changing the kernel can bring performance improvements, but going from a 686 kernel or another one to a 386 is most definitely not going to “slow [your] computers to a crawl”.


Also, upgrading to another kernel is as easy as installing any other program. You can do it through Synaptic. This, of course, does not mean that it should not be included in EasyUbuntu.

The problem is, a lot of people that use EasyUbuntu do not know what a kernel is or what the difference is between 386, 686, etc. Not to mention that this option would require having to know what kernel your system will take. This could cause more problems that it solves. As someone else mentioned before, EasyUbuntu is there to get you up and running, not to make every single option available. Also, if you have the knowledge of what a kernel is, what the difference is between 386, 686, etc. and know what kernel your system can take, you should easily be able to install the needed kernel yourself using apt-get or Synaptic.


To date, I've loaded on 76 copies of ubuntu around the city. What does that say about me? Impressive!

[gil-galad]

The problem is, a lot of people that use EasyUbuntu do not know what a kernel is or what the difference is between 386, 686, etc.

Heck, I don't even really know what this is supposed to do. I know it means that the kernel was compiled was different flags, but what does this really do? I have never noticed a performance increase by changing it away from i386.

[ember]

If I remember correctly, there is not a big change you will ever notice. The speed increase was about 4 oder 5% I think.

[dragonfyre13]

If I remember correctly, there is not a big change you will ever notice. The speed increase was about 4 oder 5% I think.

I've really only noticed it on P4s with HT. Anything else runs just fine with i386. I'm not sure if this is pertinent, but that's how it's worked for me.

As far as things to include in the next version;

A) Something that I had trouble with was getting people that I gave this to, to get that they had to type ii in the terminal when it requested the java version. I know that there are instructions on this, but honestly, most users just read the text in front of them, and when they don't get it, quit. It would be nice if a box popped up just before this happened, explaining what to do.

B) It would be nice if a right click script could be added for installing deb files. I had to add this to the right click scripts directory manually. My little brother can't seem to get the hang of the Terminal, and so I added this to his computer for installing files he downloads from the net, and not the repo.

C) FIX OPERA INSTALLATION. I've not been able to get this to work on any system I've used Easy Ubuntu on. It seems to install fine, the shortcut is there, (albeit without an icon) but when it tries to run opera, it's not a recognised command. Opera is definately my browser of choice, and I've even converted a few firefox fans. If there isn't an easy, "debian' way of installing this, it just makes for a hassle.

[az]

Heck, I don't even really know what this is supposed to do. I know it means that the kernel was compiled was different flags, but what does this really do? I have never noticed a performance increase by changing it away from i386.


On older hardware (PII or PIII less than (I guess 800MHz)) the improvement is quite significant. I have not run a benchmark or anything, but I would say more like 20 percent.

I will actually be getting an AMD Athlon 600Mhz soon and I am curious about the difference between 386 and K7 on that, too.

[poofyhairguy]

Heck, I don't even really know what this is supposed to do. I know it means that the kernel was compiled was different flags, but what does this really do? I have never noticed a performance increase by changing it away from i386.

Moving to a smp kernel with my dual-core CPU allows me to use the second core.

Besides that.....

[keyes]

A) Something that I had trouble with was getting people that I gave this to, to get that they had to type ii in the terminal when it requested the java version. I know that there are instructions on this, but honestly, most users just read the text in front of them, and when they don't get it, quit. It would be nice if a box popped up just before this happened, explaining what to do.

The actual version of Easy Ubuntu (not EasyBreezy or Automatix) install java1.5 without any action from the user. It'll be the same for EU 3.0

B) It would be nice if a right click script could be added for installing deb files. I had to add this to the right click scripts directory manually. My little brother can't seem to get the hang of the Terminal, and so I added this to his computer for installing files he downloads from the net, and not the repo.

Good idea

C) FIX OPERA INSTALLATION. I've not been able to get this to work on any system I've used Easy Ubuntu on. It seems to install fine, the shortcut is there, (albeit without an icon) but when it tries to run opera, it's not a recognised command. Opera is definately my browser of choice, and I've even converted a few firefox fans. If there isn't an easy, "debian' way of installing this, it just makes for a hassle.

the actual version don't install Opera.

[dragonfyre13]

the actual version don't install Opera.

I know easy breezy does. If you two are merging, that would be something to look into, I know I use it all the time, and so does everyone I load up with Ubuntu.

Also, checking to see if it is a .deb package before processing, and poping up with a terminal to show progress, would be a step beyond what I did, (scripted it in 30 seconds) but they would both be useful features for newbies. Right now, you tell it to install a deb file, and it just looks like it's sitting there, and is actually installing in the background.

[gil-galad]

I don't understand the point of installing opera. It already is a deb file. How is unpacking easy ubuntu, installing it, and then running it easier than installing a deb file?

If a user actually wants to install opera, they can install it, its not hard. If a user doesn't know what opera is, they probably shouldn't use it. It doesn't integrate well with gnome at all.

It would be more helpful to include a program for installing deb files. The goal of easy breezy should not be another synaptic or Add applications.

[dragonfyre13]

I don't understand the point of installing opera. It already is a deb file. How is unpacking easy ubuntu, installing it, and then running it easier than installing a deb file?


Because I'm already running easy ubuntu. And as far as I know, it doesn't install anything. It's unpack, run. Then it installs everything that I use.


If a user actually wants to install opera, they can install it, its not hard. If a user doesn't know what opera is, they probably shouldn't use it. It doesn't integrate well with gnome at all.

Exactly the mentality that keeps windows users from switching to linux. The "it's not hard, why do we have to make it easier?" mentality. Forgetting that the Firefox that is included (at least in breezy) is slightly bOrKeD, (search the forums) Opera is SO much better than firefox. (Don't start an argument over that, it's my opinion, and I am entitled to it.) For the people who feel the same way I do, It's nice to have our choice of browser.

As for not integrating with gnome, it does. Quite well, actually. The only thing that it doesn't do, is mimic the theme that you use. The reason for that is because it has it's OWN themes. That's the point. As for everything else, it benchmarks faster than firefox, leaves a smaller footprint, and everything else is a matter of opinion.

It would be more helpful to include a program for installing deb files. The goal of easy breezy should not be another synaptic or Add applications.

I agree. installing deb files is important, as I mentioned previously. However, opera was simply a suggestion. Easy Ubuntu should not turn into a Synaptic, but I know quite a few people that begin to panic when they hear the word firefox, (due to the Geekiness that it has aquired in the media) or think that they are locked into this web interface. Give them a choice, and they will feel much more comfortable. As of now, many people simply think that firefox is one of the only internet browsers that has much of anything to offer. Opera is another choice, and a popular one, in one of the most critical areas for the average windows convert.

[sas]

I've really only noticed it on P4s with HT. Anything else runs just fine with i386. I'm not sure if this is pertinent, but that's how it's worked for me.

As far as things to include in the next version;

B) It would be nice if a right click script could be added for installing deb files. I had to add this to the right click scripts directory manually. My little brother can't seem to get the hang of the Terminal, and so I added this to his computer for installing files he downloads from the net, and not the repo.


gdebi (http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-November/013048.html) is set to be included with dapper, which installs .debs by clicking on them.

[dragonfyre13]

I just wanted to post a suggestion. I thought that it would be helpful for new windows switchers if Wine was included in Easy Ubuntu. If Wine, XWine, and a few changes to some config files are made, it would be quite easy to run windows applications for many people.

The config changes I'm talking about are the ones that make the default to open exe files set to wine. That way, when a user wants to use a windows application, they simply need to click on it. This is one thing that I really appreciate about Crossover Office. Going through Xwine everytime can be a pain for some people, but if they want to, XWine should be put on the menu.

I know that some of this is included with Easy Breezy, so it should be a simple matter.

[sas]

Some Mono/.net applications, particularly GTK/.net ones use an exe extension though.